Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[RyuDragnier]

As for body types I'd like ... fan art from other games time!

This is actually the type of face I'd like for female Hrothgar, and would fit in well alongside the males.

[AnAverageAspie]

If you're talking about my examples I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just know not everyone is as good at visualization as I am so I'm trying to help with visual aids. Plus I got tired of trying to explain concepts like exaggerating features to better express emotions (seeing as it's a principle of animation that may be hard to grasp if just tossed out there).

As for my circles, the Femroe are pouting ... but for the longest people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ...

To me it's like "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Draggos were not a fluke, no amount of people sighing over the differences means anything because they're extremely popular and the people who play them enjoy them enough as is so it doesn't matter that HW me was annoyed that the girls weren't Femroe with horns.

It's fascinating to me that people ignore all this, but I've been low-key trying to temper expectations since SHB release cause none of the math for what people say they "should be" adds up in practice.

I truly hope we get to see them someday. :/

If you're not trying to sway people to your opinion but wanted to take the easy route, towards people that inherently don't need your opinion then you just created a two sided echo vacuum.

The "webz"? Its not wrong to just say Discord, small discussion boards since you just used those previously to justify reasons to ignore or belittle the like system on these forums. That fanart which was posted from Reddit deviated from the fanart to practically ignoring it in discussing alternate ideas.

Nobody said Draggos were a fluke. They were a half and half wasted opportunity in deviating from the Status Quo. The survey wanted reptile race, not humans with low poly horns and skin fungus. The majority of players only gravitate to the females. They even used the miqote model with a different tail for Yugiri in the MAIN STORY(not some side quest) as a base point for the race so expectation was already well controlled besides the stark dimorphism, low poly horns and skin fungus that the community still complain about despite enjoying "some" aspects of the race. And that's the issue, why can't we get a race that majority of players enjoy ALL the aspects? This game strives for "attractive" but still gives a big handicap thanks to the engine. In a perfect world, textures would be higher and gear sets would actually scale with size/shape properly. Clans would be even more different than the disparity of Hyur/Highlander so people would have more choices for their true beauty they want to express.

Again, Femroe is and was a poor execution of using a midlander body.
They use male Roe body to make a big "attractive" lion male race.
Therefore, it was and is justified in assuming they could make an "attractive" opposite gender with the female roe body in mind, a blend of Thighlander/FemRoe. The "unappealing" nature of Femroe is poorly EXECUTED but we know its too late to change it now unless that "CC revamp" gives a double whammy or if FFXVI gives a new visual cleanup for these races*shrug*

In regards to marketing “Build something 100 people love, not something 1 million people kind of like.” which mirrors the mobile market to bring in Whales and the annoyed but passionate low player base of Hrothgar and Roe. And the practice in this game has been criticized in forum and out. The Devs gave a half winded stance and vague anecdotes on supporting the LGBT community (body positivity attractiveness for all genders. Tall, Small, Slim, Curvy, Fat, Bulky, etc.) and all it takes to squeeze the whoopie cushion is a mural of another slim design for a gender of a race the majority did not want or universally love but grew a dedicated fanbase of expressive gender positive players. Shows that unlocking gender specific dresses is all they're willing to go. Make a race a dedicated playerbase/community WANTS to play so they bond with it to the point of unintentionally extending their subscription like its a drug habit just so they can play in the world as that character. That is mostly what the Viera and Hrothgar players are at this point, despite their flaws they deliver a certain identity that only Final Fantasy can deliver and not some Bless examples like you stated. And the Vargs both have flat faces. So no animal head on female could look more disturbing than the dimorphism of Au Ra

Imma have to stop you right there. Maybe you're talking about some other site you're on but here?

everyone just points at Ronso and the convo stops

This thread saw it's first big spike in forever with Bozja art talk which is around the time you came. At this point it seems everyone's in the process of coming to terms with it or ignoring it

You can come out of your rock now, the femboy viera episode became a meme at this point and now its shortstack manly bun dwarfs (kidding).

Is that how wondering to you works? To just stop a conversation by verbally pointing away from a discussion?...You mean stop, cringe and discuss something in the same ballpark. That's how a discussion evolves.

Coming to terms/ignoring female Hrothgar entirely is just another spit in the bucket. Let me share with you an olive branch. Props on the underappreciate EQN race designs, though the KittyDee lion and the one with a harp is mine and many others compromise since it would still be a big movement in showing female anthros can indeed be attractive with a animal head (I wish I could post a lion art from Tyroo but its adult due to consistency and "non binary" content is still sadly viewed as "too adult"). An alternative Section 3 would be that front of "well, at least give male hrothgars signature feature".

No, they don't. That's a leap. The males outnumber the females by a ton so if the dudes look scary people they will struggle to get along. Plus the females are rarely even seen cause of their numbers.

By this logic, its just the males being harmed by...the equivalent idea of vocal inquisition for just the male faces alone. This will be broken anyway if we see a surge of people actually start playing female hrothgar that equalizes with or surpasses their male counterparts in player population.

You forgot to add more to the quote:
"While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land."

The race text in the CC if not changed would make this more concerning. But never did the bottom text specify just the males but carefully specify their faces.
"The Hrothgar’s imposing countenance – mitigated not at all by their sharp claws and still sharper fangs – incited panic amongst Eorzeans upon their arrival."
Are they going to add, SANS FEM HROTHGARS. Add another text about the females grand time locked in the closet with male viera? ->Or just not bother?<-

To mitigate as much player dissonance, its reasonable as a writer and artist to give the females a "beastly" face at the least to keep the bottom text consistent to both genders.

And previously you were also confused with with the phantasmal divide of "beastly/furry" when its the japanese who use two "beastly" terms (Kemono/Jujin). So now the discussion for your argument has moved from the wants of Beastly=hyper masculine/dangerous with animal features to just....animal features like a animal head. Remember Disney's Hunchback? That's the bare minimum of an abstract change in face or form to thematically justify fear towards someone's "odd but attractive" appearance. Au Ra was close but the game just...ignored their introduction compared to the admittedly juicy Horthgar lore we get in Bozja. The uncanniness that pulls you out of a series can start happening when its just....flat with face coloring supposed to be fur or evil/crazy person looking incredibly evil.

Ronso is just Khimari just like how Burmecian is just Freya (at least they have similar structures). It's getting old.

If someone thinks viera emotes are masculine, they have no clue what they are talking about, in my opinion. I think many also think so because of their height. A lot of people are just used to their tiny au ra, and miqo'te. It's that whole tall argument again.

Its the sexist 4chan argument all over again "I don't wanna be in a world where women are bigger and better than me! Please be cute like this hug pillow!". Thinking just one miniscule difference of a woman being "strong" or "not girly/moe" is too masculine (or it can be just tomboyish, where the kink is "breaking down" that persons trait into "embracing" their true "biological" nature as a "woman") . Their emotes are still feminine but rather well controlled in a Victorian/primadonna sense which is still gender stereotypical but its different. Now if they didn't have that /toast

[reivaxe]

Khajiit used to be cat girls/cat boys, then they switched to the more beast-like 'Suthay-raht' in Morrowind, and kept that type since. ..

I wonder if they just didn't want to deal with custom heads and their limitations at the time. Unlike with hrothgar in ShB.

I started with Skyrim so didn't even know the lore behind them, interesting.

And yeah, Draggos were basically as Beastly as they were willing to get before the showed us Hrothgar. Lots of their concept art showed them having actual ears and horns on top of their head in a way that would screw them over like Viera. They let go of the idea at some point likely because they knew what it would mean for the race.

I don't necessarily think they should as I don't think it was a good idea even for male Hrothgar, but there's no reason the females couldn't work much the same way and still appeal to their niche.

I think what you're doing here is trying to make a Tit for Tat reasoning where there is none.

Why do male Hrothgar have manes that they can not customize?
Cause YP wanted to go all out on the beast head theme and make them lions and lions have manes.

Why are female Hrothgar depicted as being bald?
Because female lions do not have manes.


It's as simple as that, they based Hrothgar on the legit single type of cat with big-n-obvious sexual dimorphism. Them being lions is the prefect logic to have sexual dimorphism unseen in other races. Females being bald is already an option the males don't have assuming females have any hair options at all. (I assume "WIGS!" because if they're legit just bald and flat faced as the art would suggest then ... there's no reason they couldn't have hats as there's nothing on their head.)

If you're not trying to sway people to your opinion but wanted to take the easy route, towards people that inherently don't need your opinion then you just created a two sided echo vacuum.

lmao, wut are you talking about?

People whining about the art ...
"It's not detailed enough to tell" I show examples of how the art is decently detailed as it has everything key to making a Femroe in it's depiction ... so it's worth looking at.
"Cats the movie! Miqote 2.0!" I show examples of things that look like the depicted art to help people visualize beyond such examples.

Given how someone literally posted an exaggerated cheetah to show why exaggeration isn't an important trait for making complex human facial expressions on animals I felt the need to start helping people visualize.

IDGAF if they like the concept though, I just can't be bothered to constantly break down the principles of animation and character design every time I simply point out something like "the relationship between Hrothgar's faces and their dramatic body emotes".

The "webz"? Its not wrong to just say Discord, small discussion boards since you just used those previously to justify reasons to ignore or belittle the like system on these forums. That fanart which was posted from Reddit deviated from the fanart to practically ignoring it in discussing alternate ideas.

Wut are you talking about?
"people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ..."
I WAS talking reddit and twitter ya Goof, try to keep up.
I only refer to big social media sites that the devs would pay attention to and we know they pay attention to reddit. Even Google points to that fan art as the first hit for "female Hrothgar".

Nobody said Draggos were a fluke. They were a half and half wasted opportunity in deviating from the Status Quo.

I say draggos aren't a fluke because people in here whining about them amounts to a hill of beans. If SE learned anything from it it's that they can do it and get away with it cause people who play them are happy with them and that's all that matters.

Again, Femroe is and was a poor execution of using a midlander body.

Though I love em ... Femroe are a poor execution of a number of things :/

They use male Roe body to make a big "attractive" lion male race.

IDK how the hell you play Hrothgar and put "attractive" in quotes like you're just humoring the idea.

Hrothgar are sexy af.

(AND cute.)

In regards to marketing “Build something 100 people love, not something 1 million people kind of like.” ...

If you want to work for SE marketing and dev team then apply and tell them friendo, I'm not here to morally justify or def SE. I simply look at what they HAVE done, look at the information given and come up with theories about what they will do.

Is that how wondering to you works? To just stop a conversation by verbally pointing away from a discussion?

Wondering is expressing curiosity. I'm not at all demanding anything look like anything but if you don't like me trying to put the puzzle to female Hrothgar together in here (a thread about Female Hrothgar) you can block me.

Coming to terms/ignoring female Hrothgar entirely is just another spit in the bucket.

???

Let me share with you an olive branch. Props on the underappreciate EQN race designs, though the KittyDee lion and the one with a harp is mine and many others compromise since it would still be a big movement in showing female anthros can indeed be attractive with a animal head

"Props"? I fking love anthros and MMOs. Much of my personal art style (when I drew far more) was anthro in nature and I keep a close eye on any MMO's. If w/e new MMO the EQ devs are working on (but wont talk about) is popping I'm there. I've been the only person I can remember in this thread suggesting for people to go out and find art of furry females from other sources to share and start a dialog. I've prob posted the most art of anyone in this thread before the recent "I'mma stop beating around the bush and say it the F word everyone's afraid of" decision where I just started tossing up any furry art that I like and looks good and is SFW.

To set the record straight, I have never advocated for Female Hrothgar to have flat faces.
Only ever advocated for them to be attractive because the dudes are hot AF and so should the females be firmly in the sexy or cute camp. I want a number of people to enjoy them. That being said, I'm not at all married to any 1 style of furry for them. Every context clue the devs hand us lead me to think that the art was exactly where they would go from the moment I saw Hrothgar males in the benchmark. Hell, thinking about how they took people gushing over buff lupin concept art to mean "Lets make ... CAT AGAIN!" Screamed to me that they wanted to make and excuse to make the faces flatter for females (which is harder to do with a wolf).

I don't care though as I like the eastern style to and know that this is a JPN company. I'm not going to throw a fit over them doing what they have shown the compacity to do time and time again.

You forgot to add more to the quote:
"While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land."

The race text in the CC if not changed would make this more concerning. But never did the bottom text specify just the males but carefully specify their faces.
"The Hrothgar’s imposing countenance – mitigated not at all by their sharp claws and still sharper fangs – incited panic amongst Eorzeans upon their arrival."
Are they going to add, SANS FEM HROTHGARS. Add another text about the females grand time locked in the closet with male viera? ->Or just not bother?<-

"Hailing from the distant shores of Ilsabard, the Hrothgar are a burly people of leonine appearance—or the males at least. Females are staggeringly few among their population and are rarely glimpsed by the other races."
They outright say they don't know what the females look like.

"After the Hrothgar gained mastery over the common tongue fears allayed and, in time, they were welcome in all corners of the realm."
They are not currently in the "everyone's afraid of us" phase.

[Nestama]

Just saying again that female Hrothgar should be given the same treatment as the males.

[Iscah]

I'm not sure why people are assuming females might be flat-faced just based on the very stylised mural - to me it looks exactly how you would portray a catlike face in that minimal-detail art style.

[Yencat]

I think what you're doing here is trying to make a Tit for Tat reasoning where there is none.

No. I don't think it would be particularly fair but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Why do male Hrothgar have manes that they can not customize?
Cause YP wanted to go all out on the beast head theme and make them lions and lions have manes.

Why are female Hrothgar depicted as being bald?
Because female lions do not have manes.

Calling them 'manes' is, to me, just a flavorful way for them to refer to their hair. It has very little to do with lions or actual manes as only 2 out of 8 actually look like lion manes.

Unless male lions actually have top knots, braids, ponytails and spikey mohawks in the wild and I've just not been paying attention.

There's zero reason the females couldn't follow the 4 unique faces with 2 hairstyles each approach beyond "well they're women so they need to be able to change their hair!".

It's as simple as that, they based Hrothgar on the legit single type of cat with big-n-obvious sexual dimorphism. Them being lions is the prefect logic to have sexual dimorphism unseen in other races. Females being bald is already an option the males don't have assuming females have any hair options at all. (I assume "WIGS!" because if they're legit just bald and flat faced as the art would suggest then ... there's no reason they couldn't have hats as there's nothing on their head.)

That's ignoring the fact that Hrothgar also have a Coeurl-type face, lions are a influence but they're not just based on that and wouldn't need to strictly follow the same sexual dimorphism as them.

I just think you're putting way too much stock in the mural being the confirmation that that is 100% how they will look, it's true that it's all we have to go on now but it could have several reasons. It could be an artistic interpretation, an idealized version of how they were viewed, a caste-type system where only the lioness looking ones are chosen to be handmaids, or even as simple as SE not wanting to design several different and unique looking female Hrothgar for a mural in content a lot of people won't see in the years to come.

I personally don't think they will be indistinguishable from the men, but I think if they were to do them at all they would follow much the same system as the men and at least look like they belong to the same race. So unique, but attractive and possibly feminine beast looking faces with however many hairstyles each and no hats.

Hrothgar weren't designed with mass appeal in mind in the first place so there's no reason they need to waifu up the females to appeal to that niche, if anything I imagine it would detract from it if they end up looking like the Thundercats.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Just saying again that female Hrothgar should be given the same treatment as the males.

Amen to this post

[SturmChurro]

I just think you're putting way too much stock in the mural being the confirmation that that is 100% how they will look, it's true that it's all we have to go on now but it could have several reasons. It could be an artistic interpretation, an idealized version of how they were viewed, a caste-type system where only the lioness looking ones are chosen to be handmaids, or even as simple as SE not wanting to design several different and unique looking female Hrothgar for a mural in content a lot of people won't see in the years to come.

Yeah, I think this is pretty much what it is. Just a general idea of what hrothgar would look like put in a simple, stylized format. A generic concept.

[Iscah]

Unless male lions actually have top knots, braids, ponytails and spikey mohawks in the wild and I've just not been paying attention.

I don't think that's a fair argument against calling them manes in the first place. If they are essentially lion-like and their hair grows in the same way as a lion's mane but they style it instead of leaving it loose, does that make it not a mane?

Or to think about it in a different but real-world context, does a horse stop having a mane if it is plaited decoratively?

[Yencat]

I don't think that's a fair argument against calling them manes in the first place. If they are essentially lion-like and their hair grows in the same way as a lion's mane but they style it instead of leaving it loose, does that make it not a mane?

Or to think about it in a different but real-world context, does a horse stop having a mane if it is plaited decoratively?

I'm not against calling them manes at all, I just think they call it a mane instead of hair or hairstyle as a flavourful way to emphasize their beast-like nature compared to humans.

I also don't think Hrothgar are styled completely after lions rather than big cats in general, with a dash of fantasy with the horned Ronso face and the coeurl face of course.

So a female Hrothgar wouldn't necessarily have to be bald because a lioness doesn't have a mane, they could give them very long hair and still call it a mane because like you mentioned, not only lions have manes.