Job Request - Dark Transformation Theme'd Job [Vincent, Dante, Yuri, Bayonetta, etc]

[Shougun]

Minor Spoiler Warning for Shadowbringers, has to do with a minor-main character enemy (doesn't really mess with the plot if you know, but if you wanted to be surprised to combat and such, a "ooo" "aaaah", then consider caution for the following). A non-spoiler hint if you already know this minor spoiler would be if you've come back Eulmore/met the dwarves (dwarves not a spoiler because they were in the live letter lol).

Ran'Jit:

This character uses his minion and absorbs them to both change appearance (equipment really) and gain a host of new skills, while not really a morpher job as described in OP and I would love to see it taken farther (as Dualgunner and I were sort of going off on how cool the devil trigger in DMC is lol), I still felt it akin enough to be like "oh hey look, that's neat and sort of morpher like". Might say its especially morpher like if you take FF morpher at a basic description of "uses souls of monsters" :3. So this guy's morphing slight appearance is in that vein of desire of the thread but the end desire is and would still be a complete change like the Dante DMC, Vincent FF7, and etc examples.

Also might add that the character has a bit of beastmaster elements so they may be used in that topic as a talking point too, but this thread really isn't about that job .

My best guess: it'll come down to rotational effects upon your aspects/forms, with variable/versatile cooldowns that can compensate for whatever ramp-up that would demand normally.

Definitely was thinking something similar~! Although of course I mostly just throw stuff out as basic concepts since I don't think SE would or should just 1:1 take an idea (trying to encourage/inspire/spark something ). Though as what you described I would love it if SE tried to make a job like this have a shifting/dynamic elements to their rotation with value for each form, instead fixed choices or a series of shape 1, 2, 3, rinse and repeat. How fitting for a shape shifter to have a shifting rotation .

[Rymi64]

Using what Ranjit does as a basis they could actually make it work though the idea's you had lends it self better to a limited job because this would be "too complex" for normal play XD. And with yoshi-p being the producer for ff16 as well as clive having those abilities it could defiantly happen (God i hope it happens). If they were to make it a full job they could have it be like ranjit but instead you have multiple beasts you use in your rotation. The beasts work with the automiton queen a.i system so you want to wait till the last minute and activate the big move. After you activate the big move you transform (change gear like ranjit? idk) into the beast and do your combos in that form for a bit, maybe the form gives some special buff or something, until the end of that form to do a big attack again, change back and move on to the next beast. Could have it be random which beast you get of the 3 when you come out of the form but if you let the beast run out by itself without transforming it cycles to the next beast in line (Idk just spit balling an idea). I cant really think of a weapon they could use. I would say scythe while cool could go with something more original like a knife and a catalyst like rdms.

[Seraphor]

I think this would work better as a limited job too. If only because of the variety of transformations.
As a normal job you'd get 2, maybe 3 options tops, and then everyone would just look exactly the same. In a game that's all about glamour and character customisation, everyone of a certain job looking exactly the same doesn't seem like it fits in this game at all.
But as a limited job, it could have multiple forms with multiple effects.

[Shougun]

Using what Ranjit does as a basis they could actually make it work though the idea's you had lends it self better to a limited job because this would be "too complex" for normal play XD. And with yoshi-p being the producer for ff16 as well as clive having those abilities it could defiantly happen (God i hope it happens). If they were to make it a full job they could have it be like ranjit but instead you have multiple beasts you use in your rotation. The beasts work with the automiton queen a.i system so you want to wait till the last minute and activate the big move. After you activate the big move you transform (change gear like ranjit? idk) into the beast and do your combos in that form for a bit, maybe the form gives some special buff or something, until the end of that form to do a big attack again, change back and move on to the next beast. Could have it be random which beast you get of the 3 when you come out of the form but if you let the beast run out by itself without transforming it cycles to the next beast in line (Idk just spit balling an idea). I cant really think of a weapon they could use. I would say scythe while cool could go with something more original like a knife and a catalyst like rdms.

I think it would be fine for normal play assuming each form has less buttons than a normal job and they utilize a system similar to dancer to or other button replacing skills (so that you can keep a bar that isn't 50 buttons). Of course mixed with an underlying implicit or explicit system that encourages rotation (which I think would be better if it wasn't fixed into a perfect repetition). The rate of form changing can be designed around the gameplay feel, if you stay longer in one form till switching you probably should have more skills per form if you quickly change forms (not hyper quick but like 5-7 minutes one form vs 1-3 minute) then you obviously need less skills per form. Also as we talked about in the other thread you have the potential for mix skills, or skills that exist outside of forms which can help with that gameplay feel (for example if 5 skills changed at a form shift I don't think it will melt anyone's brain, that wouldn't already have their brain melt if zero skills changed and they were asked to play their job optimally).

For the added simplicity I've not bothered with any full bred multi-role which I think would be extra chaos (in a normal job at least), with peering at SMN's or RDM's homework a bit (placing it near them in the damage and diversity), but with a bit more step-lock action to access hybrid (unlike SMN which is more open-book, minus the demi which is more step lock, like SMN always has access to raise for example (red mage being even more open-book), and I'm not even suggesting this job needs or should have a 'raise', so the job's diversity potential is high but changing forms wantonly wouldn't produce the best DPS results which helps balance itself for whatever actual support is added).

I think this would work better as a limited job too. If only because of the variety of transformations.
As a normal job you'd get 2, maybe 3 options tops, and then everyone would just look exactly the same. In a game that's all about glamour and character customisation, everyone of a certain job looking exactly the same doesn't seem like it fits in this game at all.
But as a limited job, it could have multiple forms with multiple effects.

Part of a transformation job is indeed a similarity look, as you have in WoW with Druid and sort of with Demon Hunter - it's just part of the job, so I know you listed it as a con but it just seems par the course. If you want that type of job you get that type of issue- I still want THAT job as a normal job (or both, limited and normal).

Going PF exclusive type content, only, would be a loss to me, not a gain- like a serious disappointment. If they made it so you could practically do whatever you wanted in old content, on your own, I might have value in it and be a bit "bummer, but okay", but if it goes the same design style as is our current blue mage.. God.. Please no. I'd rather never see the job exist, personally (aka imo). I did not enjoy the content as it was created nor the concept as delivered - as separate entities I've issue with, and do not want to have something I want go into 'that' sort of design style- again . . . which if not clear I use personally / imo because if other people like that they're allowed to (because of course lol) but if for example a dev read this and was like oh "yeah lets do a Vincent job" and then read someone say limited I want to be the person being say both or normal please I did not make the thread because I wanted to see another pf exclusive job and would be a bit crestfallen if not a lot by that choice (normal would be amazing, solo focused limited would be either neat or potentially amazing depending on effort but pf exclusive limited would be a bit soul crushing especially if they make it as they did blue mage, which this is not the blue mage thread but I obviously didn't like what and how what happened to the job [ 60 - 70 spells on blue mage are far more exciting though, just to note a positive for blue mage]).

Also just to add, not sure if you read it, but there was details on how to add customization to the forms via the weapon choice. I picked an armor-like weapon as the base concept because I felt it could flow into the other parts of the job's forms. The example I've given a few times is if you imagine a scarf like 'weapon' that then you transformed into a wolf, you could absolutely picture that scarf still on the wolf (and it would look cool). There would need to be some thoughtful designs of weapons models to add efficiency in design to prevent over design requirements, but given thought on the outset I think you could absolutely achieve relatively low added extra cost yet have a transformation job that comes with customization of appearance to some extent. You could also add some easing up, on top of pre-thought designs, in that perhaps only the AF and Relics will receive extra attention (where as more general information passes for normal items the AF or Relic would get a bit more). Obviously more work than say making a black mage staff, but other jobs occasionally get some extra love like Samurai scabbards or SMN when they feel compelled to add extra summons. Such an example might be if there were X shapes of the gear piece in one form the shape of the gear piece and color translates into your form, meanwhile another form that might use a sword might take the texture pattern and apply it to their armor and sword (with colors being represented), or a relic may have some cool back story about which soul, emotion, or energy type is imbued in it and so then your forms have a unique shift outside of the standard. You could go more or less mild from there, with the simple side still being more than most MMOs with transformation jobs offer anyways, but if more (especially if you plan with forethought so the extra cost is mitigated some) would be awesome too.

I think you could have 4 combat forms without too much 'can't be done', though I'd probably shoot for 3 unless money and time was falling out of my ears. With melee, ranged, support, which I don't think should be so clear cut as that (like one form may be ranged with a certain type of support), but that already easily prepares the concept of 3 without too much effort in terms of concept (depending on number of skills of course balance and time to design would be different, 3 forms with 20 skills each would be "a lot" of effort, but I'm not thinking that). Of course on top of your combat forms you can readily add side forms for movement (like WoW has water, land, and air forms).