Possible Ideas to Address Hrothgar/Viera Hat Disparity?

[Allegor]

I don't know how happy new fur patterns would make Hrothgar players as they only really show when you're shirtless, but they didn't even add those.

I can pretty much assure you if we get more fur patterns instead of hairstyle or the Fantasia issue even more Hroth players will simply jump ship.

Also call it tinfoil hat theory but if Hrothgars needing Fantasia was a deliberate choice as "compensation" because they knew it wouldn't be a popular race then SE would outrank Blizz and EA in scummy business models.

[Yencat]

Also call it tinfoil hat theory but if Hrothgars needing Fantasia was a deliberate choice as "compensation" because they knew it wouldn't be a popular race then SE would outrank Blizz and EA in scummy business models.

If Blizzard had done something like this in WoW they would rightfully be a laughing stock and mocked all over the internet and especially on these forums, so you might not be far off the mark. There's no way I believe they started working on Hrothgar first and Viera was a last minute inclusion with how badly they bungled their implementation, they were barely finished to even show at their Fan Fest reveal and they had to hide them with dark filters while they kept working on them.

I've said it before but if they had done this with Au Ra people would have torched these forums to the ground.

They kept mum about this until the very end and were very lucky the male Viera supporters were so loud and angry that almost no one was paying attention to this anymore.

[SturmChurro]

Not as bad as you'd expect honestly. These are only 2 images I found but many hairstyles are of similar style and length so I imagine they'd look fine. Subjective of course, but I think they look pretty good all things considered.

Not all of them are gonna look good but personally I don't think the Gyr Abanian Plait looks good on any male characters, but if the players like it they can decide for themselves if they think it looks good or not.

I can probably agree with you with the Borzja hair. That one I was thinking even before seeing that image that it would look good on them. The other one... not for me (but neither is hrothgar). There are a select few that would probably fit hrothgar real well, and just like viera, hrothgar should get support for select styles. If they can't do them all, at least do some of them..

Honestly the more I post in this thread the more it starts to dawn on me there's probably just not going to be a satisfactory solution to this in terms of hairstyles unless they redo how they set up the CC Hrothgar or they make some big changes in character creation that allows for more options. I guess it should have been obvious for a long time but I did expect better.

They shot Hrothgar in the kneecaps by their own design and tied Viera to the train tracks next them, they're not going to give anything to one without the other but fixing one on such a core level might be a bigger undertaking than they're willing to take on.

Would they be willing to actually fix Hrothgar so they don't require a Fantasia? And if not, are both races only going to be getting things in expansions? Are we even getting anything substantial in the next expansion?

When they broke the 2B butt by accident they very quickly released a statement but when it comes to this it's been crickets for a long time now.

I don't think hrothgar are going to get any kind of solution. Even SE said they would be adding more faces for hrothgar and hairs (race specific) to viera. This tells me, at least at the time, they are content with their release. I know people go over and over, how the races aren't finished, but they are finished. If they add anything it will be a bonus. "New faces" - which tells me, hrothgar will still need a fantasia to switch to those "new faces".

It is a bit odd, the community hasn't been quiet at all for viera/hrothgar, and SE seems to be largely ignoring the whole thing. 2B butt happens, almost immediately they fix it so people don't have a flat butt glam anymore. Very odd priorities.

If Blizzard had done something like this in WoW they would rightfully be a laughing stock and mocked all over the internet and especially on these forums, so you might not be far off the mark. There's no way I believe they started working on Hrothgar first and Viera was a last minute inclusion with how badly they bungled their implementation, they were barely finished to even show at their Fan Fest reveal and they had to hide them with dark filters while they kept working on them.

They kept mum about this until the very end and were very lucky the male Viera supporters were so loud and angry that almost no one was paying attention to this anymore.

I think that whole hrothgar "first" thing is a bit suspicious. Considering viera were the ones on the billboards, and everytime I saw an ad online it was a viera, and largely when it came to ShB I saw viera NOT hrothgar. The whole concept of "Oh, viera were just a handout for the people who wanted it" doesn't really fit..

It took them months to even update the mogstation, stating that viera/hrothgar can't use certain items. Like hats (in reference to this thread).


New thoughts*, even if they could the whole fantasia thing tells me it would never happen. The whole hair being tied to faces tells me hrothgar will NEVER get a substantial amount of styles. If SE is not intent on "fixing" it, it's just never gonna happen. It's just too much. Let's say they add the windcaller cut, for example. That cut would have to be on every single face, duplicated. The whole creator would be a cluttered mess. The whole "new faces" thing, just means more of the same, less what people want. So, if you are a hrothgar who likes a certain face right now, you may not even be able to use that face with a hairstyle you may like that's tied to another face in the future.

In regards to this thread, this also tells me, the more heads there are for hrothgar, the less chance for hats to EVER be made available to them. If they have to fit each hat to each singular head, it's LITERALLY NEVER gonna happen.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Im gonna be lazy in the moment and not try to refind the source, but they said the Hrothgar and Viera would be getting new Hairstyles unique to them.
Dont know about Viera, but for Hrothgar this makes sense because not alot of the current hairstyles would fit on them very well. As said; they would look ridiculous.
Now, the big thing here that is possibly overlooked because of how much people want it to hurry up and happen, but it was never expressed WHEN we would see these new Hairstyles. So saying its never gonna happen, or jumping to other conclusions is abit hasty. None of us can speak for YoshiP, the Devs or SE here, there can be a multitude of reasons why it hasn't happened yet, and there is a possibility that many issues will be addressed in 6.0.
Having a whole 2+ years to try and fix something while working on the game seems better then slapping together something half-cocked in a few months or less then a year.
Yeah-yeah the modding community, SE is a Billion dollar company and all that jazz, but I think its better that they actually FIX the issue after being bombarded with how much of an issue it is, rather then a bandaid to temporarily make people happy-but will just make people mad anyway (Like serious, some people find any little thing to complain about)

It is a bit odd, the community hasn't been quiet at all for viera/hrothgar, and SE seems to be largely ignoring the whole thing. 2B butt happens, almost immediately they fix it so people don't have a flat butt glam anymore. Very odd priorities.
I think that whole hrothgar "first" thing is a bit suspicious. Considering viera were the ones on the billboards, and everytime I saw an ad online it was a viera, and largely when it came to ShB I saw viera NOT hrothgar. The whole concept of "Oh, viera were just a handout for the people who wanted it" doesn't really fit..

Ill agree that the 2B butt thing getting addressed fast is an Odd priority, but they did say what happened was an error. What they did with the Viera and Hrothgar was not an Error, they were made as intended wither we like it or not. Hopefully all the stink are leading to needed changes.
I disagree on your idea that the Viera & Hrothgar are being ignored. I chose to belive that they just arn't bringing attention to them without anything to show for it, and its better to remain quiet and reveal when ready, as suppose to making a promise they MIGHT not be able to keep, or even building hype for something that will lead to disappointment.
IE - The response to 'stay tuned' when somebody asked about Male Viera. (Might be a misquote)

There's no way I believe they started working on Hrothgar first and Viera was a last minute inclusion with how badly they bungled their implementation, they were barely finished to even show at their Fan Fest reveal and they had to hide them with dark filters while they kept working on them.

Once again being lazy in the moment, but I think it was said in a video/interview or whatever, that Hrothgar WERE in fact planned before Viera. They wanted to put in a playable Beast Race to mix things up, every playable race is just basically another human, a Beast race is a non-human option. Plus apparently the Lupin were well received and people were upset they weren't playable.
Viera only really happened because, as YoshiP has actually said, "This might be our last chance to make new races for the game. So we wanted to fulfill 2 requests"

Also call it tinfoil hat theory but if Hrothgars needing Fantasia was a deliberate choice as "compensation" because they knew it wouldn't be a popular race then SE would outrank Blizz and EA in scummy business models.

Thats a pretty big Tinfoil hat. Wouldnt make sense to spend all that time, energy and resources to make a new race and do something like that 'because they knew it wouldn't be popular'
Like really, what company would do that? Thats just a giant waste.

[SturmChurro]

Im gonna be lazy in the moment and not try to refind the source, but they said the Hrothgar and Viera would be getting new Hairstyles unique to them.
Dont know about Viera, but for Hrothgar this makes sense because not alot of the current hairstyles would fit on them very well. As said; they would look ridiculous.
Now, the big thing here that is possibly overlooked because of how much people want it to hurry up and happen, but it was never expressed WHEN we would see these new Hairstyles. So saying its never gonna happen, or jumping to other conclusions is abit hasty. None of us can speak for YoshiP, the Devs or SE here, there can be a multitude of reasons why it hasn't happened yet, and there is a possibility that many issues will be addressed in 6.0.
Having a whole 2+ years to try and fix something while working on the game seems better then slapping together something half-cocked in a few months or less then a year.

I think its better that they actually FIX the issue after being bombarded with how much of an issue it is, rather then a bandaid to temporarily make people happy-but will just make people mad anyway (Like serious, some people find any little thing to complain about)

I disagree on your idea that the Viera & Hrothgar are being ignored. I chose to belive that they just arn't bringing attention to them without anything to show for it, and its better to remain quiet and reveal when ready, as suppose to making a promise they MIGHT not be able to keep, or even building hype for something that will lead to disappointment.
IE - The response to 'stay tuned' when somebody asked about Male Viera. (Might be a misquote)

Viera would get new hairstyles, hrothgar would get new faces, supposedly. That tells me, no "fix". I doubt they would even admit that there needs to be a "fix". They've always said, due to unique heads, or whatever.. which means a conscious design decision they are content with, as is. Unique heads being a FEATURE, rather than a problem that needs to be fixed. I'm not too confident they have even been looking for a "fix", as you may think. I think your opinion may change when 6.0 rolls around and IF we get updates to these races it's just more of the same. If all we get after 2 years is just "more of the same", we will probably be too deep in, and I highly doubt viera/hrothgar will EVER get some kind of "fix".

No, I really do think the community is being largely ignored when it comes to viera/hrothgar. I don't know about a "stay tuned" for male viera, but if they are going to release male viera/female hrothgar just as limited, probably better off not doing it. I know some people will disagree, but I think it would actually be in SE's best interest at that point, and we don't need a repeat of what has been happening. I seriously doubt new male viera/female hrothgar players would be happy with all these limitations.

[Yencat]

Viera would get new hairstyles, hrothgar would get new faces, supposedly. That tells me, no "fix". I doubt they would even admit that there needs to be a "fix". They've always said, due to unique heads, or whatever.. which means a conscious design decision they are content with, as is. Unique heads being a FEATURE, rather than a problem that needs to be fixed. I'm not too confident they have even been looking for a "fix", as you may think. I think your opinion may change when 6.0 rolls around and IF we get updates to these races it's just more of the same. If all we get after 2 years is just "more of the same", we will probably be too deep in, and I highly doubt viera/hrothgar will EVER get some kind of "fix".

This is basically my worry, they specifically said new faces and manes for Hrothgar and race specific hair for Viera. So if there is no way/plans to fundamentally fix Hrothgar to be able to give them regular updates to CC throughout an expansion then Viera sinks with them and we'll both only see something new every 2 years on a new expansion launch.

No, I really do think the community is being largely ignored when it comes to viera/hrothgar. I don't know about a "stay tuned" for male viera, but if they are going to release male viera/female hrothgar just as limited, probably better off not doing it. I know some people will disagree, but I think it would actually be in SE's best interest at that point, and we don't need a repeat of what has been happening. I seriously doubt new male viera/female hrothgar players would be happy with all these limitations.

When they revealed Viera they were asked why male Viera weren't shown and were told to "stay tuned" for the next Fan Fest, giving the impression they were being saved for the next Fan Fest and getting people's hopes up. I believe that's what they're referring to.

Anyway, several people have already made it known they won't mind the limitations (they could even only have 1 single hair!) as long as they get male Viera/female Hrothgar. So I guess they have the okay from that side.

I think its better that they actually FIX the issue after being bombarded with how much of an issue it is, rather then a bandaid to temporarily make people happy-but will just make people mad anyway (Like serious, some people find any little thing to complain about)

That's what I'm saying though, I also think it would be better spending the time to actually fix it but if that's the case then why can that not be communicated? They strung people along on the technicality that they never gave a date for the future patches knowing people thought it would be 5.1, 5.2 etc. That's not being hasty, they worded it that way very carefully.

They don't need to send monthly updates but they've never even acknowledged that it's something that needs fixing, so why all the cloak and daggers when we know they can give a statement quickly if something was wrong and they need more time to fix it.

The Hrothgar situation is not "finding any little thing to complain about", it's straight up scummy and I've never seen another game do something like this unless there's no aesthetician system in the game so it works like that for every race.

Like really, what company would do that? Thats just a giant waste.

This sums up the whole situation regarding both races perfectly, it is a giant waste. And the answer is SE.

[Godzillaxpowerrangers]

I think they went the way of the dodo and more egi glams.

[Driavna]

Viera would get new hairstyles, hrothgar would get new faces, supposedly. That tells me, no "fix". I doubt they would even admit that there needs to be a "fix". They've always said, due to unique heads, or whatever.. which means a conscious design decision they are content with, as is. Unique heads being a FEATURE, rather than a problem that needs to be fixed. I'm not too confident they have even been looking for a "fix", as you may think. I think your opinion may change when 6.0 rolls around and IF we get updates to these races it's just more of the same. If all we get after 2 years is just "more of the same", we will probably be too deep in, and I highly doubt viera/hrothgar will EVER get some kind of "fix".

No, I really do think the community is being largely ignored when it comes to viera/hrothgar. I don't know about a "stay tuned" for male viera, but if they are going to release male viera/female hrothgar just as limited, probably better off not doing it. I know some people will disagree, but I think it would actually be in SE's best interest at that point, and we don't need a repeat of what has been happening. I seriously doubt new male viera/female hrothgar players would be happy with all these limitations.

My personal theory is that Viera/Hrothgar was a late decision inside their expansion cycle (and you can tell by just noticing the shared hampem gear). After all, when ShB was release devs already started working on the next one. If 6.0 all-new items don't have full headgear support then is never going to happen, same for any new unlockable hairstyle.

I also agree with you about male Viera and female Hrothgar. People say that now, but sooner or later certain headgear/hairstyle that you like is not usable and it sucks to the point you think about changing back. At least is that way for me and I accepted no headgear and no new hairstyles a long time ago.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I think your opinion may change when 6.0 rolls around and IF we get updates to these races it's just more of the same. If all we get after 2 years is just "more of the same", we will probably be too deep in, and I highly doubt viera/hrothgar will EVER get some kind of "fix".

I don't know about a "stay tuned" for male viera,

We will see, Im not one to make predictions, I judge things as they happen,not before they happen, especially not without tangable proof. I dont work off of theories very much, most of the time its just personal feelings on a matter...not too different from what I said.
The Stay tuned was for the fanfestival leading up to 5.0; the release of Shadowbringers when they showed off Viera. Somebody tried to ask about males.

That's what I'm saying though, I also think it would be better spending the time to actually fix it but if that's the case then why can that not be communicated? They strung people along on the technicality that they never gave a date for the future patches knowing people thought it would be 5.1, 5.2 etc. That's not being hasty, they worded it that way very carefully.

They don't need to send monthly updates but they've never even acknowledged that it's something that needs fixing, so why all the cloak and daggers when we know they can give a statement quickly if something was wrong and they need more time to fix it.

The Hrothgar situation is not "finding any little thing to complain about", it's straight up scummy and I've never seen another game do something like this unless there's no aesthetician system in the game so it works like that for every race.

Thats our fault for making that assumption, they never gave a date, so for any of us to think 'oh next major patch, or OH it should happen at this time' thats us as a playerbase saying it, not the devs. So while communication is nice, if they never report on it, they have nothing to say yet. Silent is better then a lie. And with how much they have been asked and harassed about headgear, I doubt that its something they are trying to ignore, because if its still being talked about after 2 years, then its something they 'should' fix. Missing Genders...idk. Id like Female Hrothgar, but it it WOULD be better to do something about the present issues first. Unless they can squash all issues at once.

"finding any little thing to complain about"
Im talking about them maybe addressing the issue and putting in a temp fix. People will still complain.
They hastily try to fix the issue and its half-cocked, but hey, they went through with the clipping they said they dont like...people complain
stuff like that.

This sums up the whole situation regarding both races perfectly, it is a giant waste. And the answer is SE.

No, a waste of time is if they made these races and then just delete them later as some people have posted.
Despite the issues there is still a healthy amount of people that still LOVE that Viera are in the game, and some people who are simply happy to finally have a playable Beast Race.
They have Plenty of room to improve (and NEED improvements) but alot of people enjoy them so far, and have been creative enough to work around glamour limitations.
They are not a waste of time.

[SturmChurro]

My personal theory is that Viera/Hrothgar was a late decision inside their expansion cycle (and you can tell by just noticing the shared hampem gear). After all, when ShB was release devs already started working on the next one. If 6.0 all-new items don't have full headgear support then is never going to happen, same for any new unlockable hairstyle.

I also agree with you about male Viera and female Hrothgar. People say that now, but sooner or later certain headgear/hairstyle that you like is not usable and it sucks to the point you think about changing back. At least is that way for me and I accepted no headgear and no new hairstyles a long time ago.

Viera/hrothgar probably barely got finished on time, I would bet. Especially hrothgar. Yeah, most definitely. 6.0 onwards they have supported minor headgear, but actual hats - nah. Hat support will NEVER be a thing, as they have said (not 100%), best we can hope for is limited support (a few pieces here and there).

Yeah, after awhile not actually having access to things, and ALL your hairstyles (purchased, or earned), while SE continues to release hair... for everyone else. The whole "I'm happy they were just released", kind of loses it's appeal. Whether players like it or not, without having to deal with yet another limited race (as male viera/female hrothgar would be the equivalent to), SE, and the game, would be better off.