FFXIV and SqEnix vs WoW and Blizzard - My Perspective

[Vahlnir]

They seem to be doing fine. The number one MMORPG out there. WoW just isn't for them. Simple as that.

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the raids greatly outweighs the number of players who might leave? Perhaps the company has metrics that some cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each raid, and grinding for gear?

I'll try to put this in perspective.

At WoW's peak, Wrath of the Lich King, and what many consider WoW's "golden age", it had 12 million players actively subbed. Some may argue that Burning Crusade was the golden age, but I'm going off of numbers. This was when the game had a little bit of everything for everyone. That age ended in Cataclysm, the following expansion, when they put most of their focus on the "raid or die" community. It had ups and downs during its cycle, but for the most part it was still a decline, little bits at a time.

Then Mists of Pandaria came out. Personally, it was my favorite expansion, but not everyone felt that way at the time. Despite having a lot to do (perhaps too much) it continued its decline. Since then (many years later) people have come to realize just how good they had it.

Then...Warlords of Draenor hit. The hype alone got 10 million players to resub/continue subbing, since it was touted as "Burning Crusade 2.0". Within 6 months of its release, 5 million players had up and left. Why? Because aside from raiding, there was nothing for the average player to do. But at least the raiders got their raids, right?

Then they tried to remove flying from current content for the entire future of WoW. That did not help the bleeding. It got so bad that they stopped posting sub numbers. The number was around 3 million or so before they stopped counting. They reversed course after swift and severe backlash from the community, but opted to make people grind for flying instead. They also stopped developing WoD by that point and were focused on another expansion, Legion. Rough estimates around that period put the player base around 2 million and it only went lower. They also had Customer Service reps on standby to talk to people as they unsubbed. Ouch.

Legion was met with some criticism and a heck of a lot of skepticism. But, they finally decided to add a little something for everyone again. And even raiding/mythic dungeons were accessible! This was also the beginning of Mythic Plus, which I don't particularly care for, but to each their own. Not everyone was happy, but I'd wager a fair number of people were satisfied. In my opinion, it was a solid expansion aside from some time gating and RNG issues. I'm sure they still lost subs, but they couldn't have lost more than they did in WoD.

Enter Battle For Azeroth, the follow up to Legion. Guess what they did? They killed crafting, removed tier sets and put most of their focus on the raid or die community and locked many rewards behind multiple layers of RNG to pad out their subscription numbers. Oh, and they released it in a broken, buggy state, earning it the name "Beta For Azeroth". The story was a mess, Island Expeditions were boring and they put time gate after time gate into the mix because they knew there wasn't enough actual content there to tide people over. They also began running promotions not long after launch, attempting to lock 6 months worth of subscription money in advance while enticing players with a fancy mount. Red flag anyone? It was around the middle of BfA that I got a lengthy survey asking for my feedback. Boy did I give it to them.

Shadowlands...this is where my post ends, and my subscription ended. Basically, it felt like Battle For Azeroth but on steroids. So I left. Long story short...never spurn your casual player base. It comes back to haunt you. Just because it's number one, doesn't mean it's actually good. It just means there isn't a lot of actual competition. I got a lengthy survey from Blizzard in my email about 2 weeks after I unsubbed. They only send those out when the going gets tough. A lot of people got one of those. So...here I am. Only subbed to FF XIV. Why? Because they respect my time. I can actually play the game I, you know, paid for. WoW used to be for players like us. It used to be for just about everyone, really. And every time they take a step toward making it less casual friendly it hurts their wallets big time. Their "core audience" is pretty much all that remains. And that won't pay the keep the lights on forever.

[SturmChurro]

I'll try to put this in perspective.

All I have to do is refer you to my previous post, for a basic reply.

Despite you buying these expansions, it seems like the game wasn't for you then (BFA), and it looks like it still isn't for you now. I think they are doing quite well, especially in China. What's wrong with Blizzard catering to their base? That's exactly what game companies do.

Listening to a vocal minority probably wouldn't work out well for Blizzard. All these people seem to be pushing for WoW to be turned into an FFXIV clone, casualized. There are other games to play, like just sticking to FFXIV. it would be like removing a core feature of WoW. It's is a raid focused game first and foremost and it has always been. The story, and everything else, like casual content, are secondary.

[eilhya]

WoW has changed through the expansions. ANd you're right @SturmChurro, the game is not for me anymore.
I could play easily as a casual player the past expansions, but in the new one, i can't. The loots were gutted, and the game is designed to make people more selfish and egocentric. It's like in big cities : full of people that don't interract with each other.
Everything is focused on the raids, and the mythic + dungeon system => competition. Rankings. As casual, you have no place. Everyone is so focused on the ranking and everything, they lose their "humanity", they forgot they are here for fun. Like said before, WoW became an e-sport, with all that implies (stress, nervousness, rush, insults ... the list goes on). So i quit. It's not for me anymore. I's not the game i want to play anymore. It was not like that before, and i miss that game. So i switched to FFXIV. And i feel much more relaxed here. The people seem much more relaxed too. Every evening, i play for fun. And i have fun.
In WoW, it had become a chore, and it was stressfull. Each dungeon was stressfull.

[Kamatsu]

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the raids greatly outweighs the number of players who might leave? Perhaps the company has metrics that some cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each raid, and grinding for gear?

Funny thing about that is back in 2010-2012 Blizzard dev's reveleaded what their internal metrics showed - only 6-7% of their active player base had ever stepped into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the 1st vanilla raid, only 1-2% had made it to the last raid, and less than 0.5% had completed it. So no, the # of players who stay for raids is NOT higher than any other playergroup.

Blizzard Dev's were actually pretty sour about the fact that so few people had experienced their raids - this is why they were making changes to WoW's raiding. Starting with the moving of vanilla's end-raid to WotLK's starter raid (while also making it easier), trying to make the initial raids easier, making starter gear for raiding easier to get, they then added in "Looking For Raid" was an even easier version of raids that offered decentish gear upgrades over crafted/quest gear... to the point that they now force players to do LFR to just get through the expansions story (to even get to the cut-off point where raiding finish's the expansions story... still have to do LFR raiding to move through zone stories).

So no, it's not that the metrics show that the player base looking for raids & raiding are high... it's because the WoW lead(s) are (or was the last time I was bothered to look/play WoW.. which was admittedly ~4 years ago) a hardcore raider... who had stated his main focus and desire was raids, raids, raids. So yeah, metrics and player-interest didn't/don't matter... as long as the dev's & dev head's want to focus of raiding.

[SturmChurro]

Funny thing about that is back in 2010-2012 Blizzard dev's reveleaded what their internal metrics showed - only 6-7% of their active player base had ever stepped into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the 1st vanilla raid, only 1-2% had made it to the last raid, and less than 0.5% had completed it. So no, the # of players who stay for raids is NOT higher than any other playergroup.

Blizzard Dev's were actually pretty sour about the fact that so few people had experienced their raids - this is why they were making changes to WoW's raiding. Starting with the moving of vanilla's end-raid to WotLK's starter raid (while also making it easier), trying to make the initial raids easier, making starter gear for raiding easier to get, they then added in "Looking For Raid" was an even easier version of raids that offered decentish gear upgrades over crafted/quest gear... to the point that they now force players to do LFR to just get through the expansions story (to even get to the cut-off point where raiding finish's the expansions story... still have to do LFR raiding to move through zone stories).

So no, it's not that the metrics show that the player base looking for raids & raiding are high... it's because the WoW lead(s) are (or was the last time I was bothered to look/play WoW.. which was admittedly ~4 years ago) a hardcore raider... who had stated his main focus and desire was raids, raids, raids. So yeah, metrics and player-interest didn't/don't matter... as long as the dev's & dev head's want to focus of raiding.

So Blizzard could listen to the vocal minority asking for WoW to be made casual for them, and thus reach out to people who are interested in that kind of content... but how many of their core / endgame-orientated players would they lose as a consequence? Read their comments and you'll see... they seem to want raids either completely removed for them (ie 100% optional) or gutted for everyone... Yes they are a small percentage of the MMO gaming community, that has in too many games received abnormally high dev attention for their numbers. Games have been diluted to cater to casuals as the years have gone by.

[Alsi270]

but how many of their core / endgame-orientated players would they lose as a consequence?

Suppose that 100% of the endgame/hardcore raiders would have left, that represents max 6-7% of the total population, that is to say a total of 840000 people maximum out of the 12 million.

[Kes13a]

So Blizzard could listen to the vocal minority asking for WoW to be made casual for them, and thus reach out to people who are interested in that kind of content... but how many of their core / endgame-orientated players would they lose as a consequence? Read their comments and you'll see... they seem to want raids either completely removed for them (ie 100% optional) or gutted for everyone... Yes they are a small percentage of the MMO gaming community, that has in too many games received abnormally high dev attention for their numbers. Games have been diluted to cater to casuals as the years have gone by.

you seem to overlook that WoW players are just that, a majority were never gamers and are unlikely to ever be gamers. they play wow, and for them, because they have little or no experience in other games, it being a job, doesnt bother them. Blizz tells them that raids are it and they believe it. for gamers, usually you are into more than just end game, hardcore raiding. a lot of gamers prefer the experience, yes, they may blast through it, but its the journey they want. there are things to do along the way and generally thats what a gamer wants.

the "vocal minority" as you put it, is likely a minority in WoW because a majority of them have left.

If the game devs made it the way the "silent majority" wanted, then I suspect they would still be around 8-10 million. silent or not, people will pay if they enjoy the game and its direction. while you may not like teh casuals, they do tend to pay for things they can play and enjoy, and are usually playing something that doesnt feel like a job after a day of work.

[Vickii]

Then Mists of Pandaria came out. Personally, it was my favorite expansion, but not everyone felt that way at the time.

This comes back to the player base just being spoilt and ungrateful people though.

I was there, the expansion was absolutely fantastic, it was like Shadowbringers is to 14.

And people cried and moaned from the moment it was announced and still cry and moan to this day about ‘pandas ruining their WoW’. People didn’t give it a chance and many of them who did just refused to like it.

It’s fine if they don’t like something or don’t want something but the sheer abuse that blizzard get day in and day out, and the level that they go to with their memes and how just out and out offensive they get over tiny things, I’m not surprised if they gave up on the player base, I’d give up on them too.

Wow was a good game with absolutely terrible people playing it.

[SturmChurro]

Before you guys waste more of your posts, I'm in a better mood now. I have a confession. I was just joking. Playing devil's advocate. Everything I have posted previously are literally just quotes I copy and pasted out of the "Condense MSQ" thread that I altered, and made my own. A "Frankenstein's monster" of sorts. The whole "casual" thing is an actual argument, I've seen when it comes to WoW, so I thought it would be fitting, and definitely reinvigorated discussion. I don't play WoW, haven't touched it since Legion (and I never got past level 20 something). FFXIV is my game, actually the only online game I play. I literally couldn't care less about WoW. Too cartoony anyway, the outfits suck. Game is so old, they are pixelated trash, or oversized and bulky. PvP was okay, but I wouldn't keep a sub for it.

Vahlnir, honorable mention, great post!

I have been waiting on some VERY lengthy queues tonight, forgive me.

[GrizzlyTank]

WoW's at lest forum community seems to be filled with people that have contempt for their fellow players... And these are the people the devs seems to listen too. Reasonable loot rates from various kinds of content? Apparently that's bad, undeserved and makes loot feels worthless and only raids should be the place you can get end-game loot, not the hardest dungeons even though they can end up being overall more mechanically intense than a singular raid boss.

A queue system for normal/heroic raids? Can't have that either because apparently everyone pugging are too dumb and disorganized to be able to complete bosses at that difficulty... even though there is a very functional pugging scene for those difficulties. Instead people using automated queues are restricted to a difficulty where bosses have an inflated health pool and all the fun features stripped from them.

And then there are those who hates the mere though of being able to play with half the playerbase only because they "chose" the wrong team... all the while nothing in the actually game supports keeping the faction barrier around any more. Nothing in the story supports it, we are frequently interacting with characters belonging to races with can't party with and the dominating faction have an option to temporarily switch side for pvp content... But since this system have been in the game since launch it can't be removed because it would kill war in warcraft.

Meanwhile most of the ingame communities have been killed of not by the dungeon finder as the vocal elitists like to complain about, but by the never ending carry spam that blocks out communication in the default global chat for those that don't use addons.

Oh and there is the constant stream of "do it now or lose out on it" rewards and features like having x.1-5 story content cut when next expansion drops adding unneeded stress while playing. Ok FFXIV does have this too in terms of seasonal events but at least here we are later given the option to purchase lost rewards.

Want to love WoW, but these attitudes and the fact that the lead devs encourages them does make it difficult to support the game.