MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Kamatsu]

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the story greatly outweighs the number of players who might stop because the story is too long? Perhaps the company has metrics that you cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each MSQ?

I touched on this in my earlier post regarding WoW's raiding #'s - WoW's internal metrics showed that less than 10% of their active player base ever touched raids, and even fewer rushed characters to endgame to raid.

So in a game that was focused on the raids, had such a small % of ppl pushing to endgame & ignoring story... vs a FF story-based MMO? Yeah I'd say their metrics likely show a tiny percent skip the whole story on the 1st character.

Also funny thing about WoW... I've noticed as WoW more and more focuses on Story and tries to force ppl into story (and becomes a worse and worse game)... we see more and more threads asking/demanding that SE butcher the MSQ so ppl can ignore the story and just get to 'endgame'.... just like what WoW raiders did prior to the past 2? expansions. Purely anecdotal commentary though.

I agree. SE may really just prefer to cater to a base rather than a potential larger audience, and continue to go down the safe formulaic heaven that is their patch cycle. Considering everything they do outside that formula the community seems to largely DISLIKE, it makes sense. Why not just cater to this base?

You know, funny thing is I've seen this exact same argument over in Guild Wars 2 prior to their 1st expansion. That time it was "Make the game harder! Make it more group focused! Listen to us and you'll expand your playerbase!". ANet listened... and then proceeded to have their worst 6 month loss (was around 65-70% loss iirc) in record as players abandoned the game.

Sure they got the small % of ppl who loved the group-focused harder content... but in the process lost a huge chunk of their established playerbase who had got into the game due to it's story, how casual it was, how they could solo, etc and not what HoT turned out to be.

Listening to a vocal minority didn't work out well for ANet. These ppl used all very similar arguments as I see from ppl in this thread pushing for MSQ to be butchered/shortened/made-unessential.

IMO it's a good case0study here - because the changes ANet were being asked to make were directly against what the game had been pushed as, and the changes SE is being asked to make goes directly against what this game has always been pushed as.

So SE could listen to the vocal minority asking for MSQ to be butchered/removed for them, and thus reach out to ppl who are only interested in endgame... but how many of their core / story-orientated players would they lose as a consequence? Would they suffer a huge 67% loss, or worse, as ANet did when they did this exact thing?
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You know, you likely would get way, way more support from everyone if instead of asking SE to spend dev time butchering the MSQ further and further each expansion... just for the small % of players who only want to grind dungeons/raids/trials... if you instead asked SE to allow new accounts 1 free story & class skip on their 1st character.

This would enable new players to skip to the current expansion on 1 class for free, play with their friends and shorten the time to endgame grind. If they want to skip more classes or characters through msq... they can then pay for it.

I'd say you'd get more support for this, a once off story & class skip for new accounts, than continually pushing for the central aspect of the game (FF story) to be butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

[Reyketi]

butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.

That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.

It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.

That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.

That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[Garnix]

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.

That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.

It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.

That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.

That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.

But again, this was because basically everybody was saying that ARR was tedious. It was not even a divisive topic. They had the numbers showing at what point people stopped playing (2.1, or around Aurum Vale were two examples provided by the dev team).
Again, give the option for the new players to skip ARR for free, and give them a 'the story so far' cutscene, and all good. This way they can access level 50 content, and pretty much see what the game has to offer.
ARR is still the main issue IMO.

All the expansions have filler but I think it is ok to first make ARR free to skip before thinking about it.

[Vahlnir]

But again, this was because basically everybody was saying that ARR was tedious. It was not even a divisive topic. They had the numbers showing at what point people stopped playing (2.1, or around Aurum Vale were two examples provided by the dev team).
Again, give the option for the new players to skip ARR for free, and give them a 'the story so far' cutscene, and all good. This way they can access level 50 content, and pretty much see what the game has to offer.
ARR is still the main issue IMO.

All the expansions have filler but I think it is ok to first make ARR free to skip before thinking about it.

Aside from one or 2 events, 2.1 onward of ARR was forgettable at best, at least in my opinion. They could make Leviathan and Ramuh storylines optional, much like the Binding Coil of Bahamut, and maybe keep Crystalis and Shiva onward. Seriously, Levi and Ramuh didn't add much. lol The story would still be there for those who pursue it, but it would cut down on a little more time that new players spend in ARR.

[SturmChurro]

You know, you likely would get way, way more support from everyone if instead of asking SE to spend dev time butchering the MSQ further and further each expansion... just for the small % of players who only want to grind dungeons/raids/trials... if you instead asked SE to allow new accounts 1 free story & class skip on their 1st character.

This would enable new players to skip to the current expansion on 1 class for free, play with their friends and shorten the time to endgame grind. If they want to skip more classes or characters through msq... they can then pay for it.

I'd say you'd get more support for this, a once off story & class skip for new accounts, than continually pushing for the central aspect of the game (FF story) to be butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

I just don't think that's true. Why do I think that? Here, for reference:

Over a year and a half ago..
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nsion-Problems

I simply didn't want to pay for a story skip, right? I even went so far as to make up an imaginary friend, so I could push for a free skip?!


Some real bangers:
64 likes on this one. I can see why!

If you don't like the idea of a skip potion, what is it exactly you are proposing they do to fix this, if not allow players to skip content? Or is it just the fact that you have to pay for it?

What would you guys do with this opinion?! Is against skips, but.. wait.. wants the story to be condensed?!

a part of me feels like skip potions shouldn't be available to brand new accounts in the first place. Those tools by themselves do have a purpose and are entirely justifiable if one is trying to make an alt, but a new player who has no pre-existing experience with the game doing it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

That said, yes early content does have issues. However, no problem is ever solved by pretending it doesn't exist and skipping past it. What could be done is some parts of AAR being streamlined the way that Crystal Tower's introductory questline was in a recent patch, adding shortcuts and alternative paths that allow players the option to skip all the no longer necessary padding without missing out on the necessary learning experience and major plot points.

I know you all will probably LOVE this opinion. Give it a like! Go on!

If people feel the need to skip that to get to the end-game grinds... Then they really do need to consider why they're playing this game as opposed to one of the other ones that caters to that gameplay better.

It's sort of like buying a book, then just reading the last chapter and saying "Well, I can read the rest of it later" but then you've only got the Epilogue left to actually read, which can be decent, but will always pale in comparison to you know, actually reading the story proper throughout the entire book.

As you can see, I had made up my "friend", because I didn't have the best interests of the game's target audience at heart! How despicable of me!

Who is this "new player" you speak of? You claim be talking about a general issue affecting all new players, but you've made it clear that you aren't one, and the friend you used as an example doesn't seem to appreciate the vast majority of content the game offers. At this point, I'm not convinced that you have the best interests of the game's target audience at heart.

Go on shower it with likes!

... probably isn't who this game is made for. And that's perfectly okay because the MMO market offers them an overabundance of alternatives.

Enough. I am tired of reading this. Long story short. Nothing will ever be received well when it comes to any sort of criticism to this game's story. Period. Sorry. Me having the audacity to suggest a free story skip would be beyond too far.

[Kamatsu]

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.
That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.
It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.
That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.
That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.
Best Wishes
-Reyketi

As other's have noted - that part of ARR and the ARR-HW section had been complained by many ppl for years, including story-focused players. That being cut doesn't mean anything regarding other sections being cut. Regarding margins - you're asking for them to constantly cut their margins to cut MSQ for what is known to be an extremely small % of MMO players.

I do find it quite telling that you 100% ignored my suggestion - a suggestion that would solve the issue that you & StormChurro have brought up, while not costing SE anything (since the lost revenue from Story&Class skip would likely be less than cost of constantly having to butcher the MSQ each expansion), would most likely get majority support from both new 'raid' players and established core 'story' players,and instead keep pushing for the MSQ to be butchered further each expansion.

BTW. History has shown that players who prefer to ignore a MMO's story and rush to end game *are* a extremely small percent". WoW, Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, STO, ESO, & LotRO have all shown (via Dev comments, finincial statements, etc) that the hardcore / raiding / skip-story types amount to 5-15% of their playerbase. So 85-95% of MMO players do not care to rush to endgame, do not care to bypass story for endgame raiding. I'm sorry, but in any normal world 5-15% of a population is classified as an 'extremely small to small percent".

Enough. I am tired of reading this. Long story short. Nothing will ever be received well when it comes to any sort of criticism to this game's story. Period. Sorry. Me having the audacity to suggest a free story skip would be beyond too far.

This is exactly what I suggested. In regards to this, I agree - SE should offer new accounts a once off option to receive 1 story skip & 1 class skip on their 1st character. This way players like you & Reyketi & such who do not want to deal with the MSQ and just start off with the current expansion (to get quicker to endgame content, or to play current expansion with friends) can do so... but if they want to do it with any other classes/characters they would then have to pay for it.

Never thought you, or anyone else, were making up friends quitting. Also regarding the comments you posted - as the saying goes, you can't satisfy everyone. Sadly no matter what is proposed... you will find ppl objecting to it. The key here (IMO) is to stay focused on options that hurt the least - ie doesn't remove story for story players, doesn't cost SE profits, doesn't force ppl into doing stuff they don't want to, etc.

Personally I've always been more fond of the 1 free story/class skip for new accounts on 1st character. Especially now we have the MSQ funny on NG+ - which means that they can always work through the games story when they have time to so and not doing something else. This doesn't remove story, doesn't force players into doing story who don't want to (well, apart from current expansion story), and likely won't cost SE anything (RoI of new players staying & no spending on MSQ cutting vs RoI of story/class kips but with constant cost of cutting MSQ each expansion).