Why do people bother dodging aoe during trash pulls?

[Gemina]

Dodging AoE even if it is non-lethal shows you have enough common courtesy to play the game correctly. It has nothing to do with whether or not the healer will adjust to your stupidity, and everything to do with stop being a lazy PoS, and play your job right.

[Starflake]

Dodging AoE even if it is non-lethal shows you have enough common courtesy to play the game correctly. It has nothing to do with whether or not the healer will adjust to your stupidity, and everything to do with stop being a lazy PoS, and play your job right.

This is simply not true. It's also not playing the game "correctly" either. If I can do 1000 DPS or 2000 DPS I will choose 2000 DPS even though I took an aoe or two to the face that nobody ever has to heal. This is exactly what it's like in Expert. In fact, I'd argue it's much more "correct" to stand in aoes if it means not dying (which you almost certainly won't) and doing the most damage because of it.

When it comes to laziness by the way, I advise you to look up a website I will not type out and check out your own performances. Being, more often than not the player with the lowest amount of buttons pressed per minute and poor uptime overall. Might have a thing or two to learn about productivity yourself

[Lumivyory]

When it comes to laziness by the way, I advise you to look up a website I will not type out and check out your own performances. Being, more often than not the player with the lowest amount of buttons pressed per minute and poor uptime overall. Might have a thing or two to learn about productivity yourself

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

[Starflake]

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website. You're just making up a boogeyman. The discord is also full of helpful people and based on it, it has spawned a whole network in The Balance which main purpose it to help other players. Some of you guys need to relax and stop pretending this is all just doom and gloom.

The only elitist stance in all this was this other guy calling people lazy sobs and throwing some hypocrisy on there. Anyway, I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to point out the blatant hypocrisy of that person. Signing off.

[tdb]

This is simply not true. It's also not playing the game "correctly" either. If I can do 1000 DPS or 2000 DPS I will choose 2000 DPS even though I took an aoe or two to the face that nobody ever has to heal. This is exactly what it's like in Expert. In fact, I'd argue it's much more "correct" to stand in aoes if it means not dying (which you almost certainly won't) and doing the most damage because of it.

Fun facts time. Most AoEs in dungeon trash pulls are fairly close range. The classes which need to fight at close range have barely any abilities with cast times and can dodge AoEs while continuing to attack (provided the player is skilled enough to multitask). Meanwhile the classes which would be worst affected by having to dodge AoEs (casters) can fight further away so the AoEs mostly don't hit them. A BLM taking an occasional targeted AoE during a trash pull is fine. A NIN eating all the trash AoEs in Heroes' Gauntlet is not.

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website.

We're talking about trash pulls in dungeons though, not endgame raids. There's almost no dungeon runs on that website. I have one recorded run and Gemina has two. The people who would care to use external tools for improving their skills are already good enough to pass any dungeon run with flying colors.

[Lumivyory]

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website.

Speedrunning is either boring or extremely nerve-wrecking, especially as a tank. Imo anyway.
And where exactly did the community improve? So many people are now all about speedrunning things and doing as much damage as possible while ignoring AoEs and mechanics. And for what? To be able to brag about their stats on that website?
Keep it to your raiding and out of casual content.
Also your "impressive" stats on that website don't make you a better player than the rest but then you yourself told another player to "learn about productivity" as if you somehow are above them and they should "git gud". Oh yes, great and nice community we've got here.

[Teno]

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website. You're just making up a boogeyman. The discord is also full of helpful people and based on it, it has spawned a whole network in The Balance which main purpose it to help other players. Some of you guys need to relax and stop pretending this is all just doom and gloom.

The only elitist stance in all this was this other guy calling people lazy sobs and throwing some hypocrisy on there. Anyway, I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to point out the blatant hypocrisy of that person. Signing off.

Sorry out of topic but where is your avatar from ?

[ForteNightshade]

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

The dev team knows the day they crack down on that website and the associated tools, is the day their raid scene dies with it. That aside, why do you get to decide what is and isn't fun? Mass pulling dungeons is the only way I feel like an actual tank because trash mobs hit like wet noodles. Thus, for me, single pulling is dreadfully boring—enough I have occasionally ate the 30 minute penalty simply because I dislike it. Likewise, trying to push damage is how I enjoy playing the game. I won't intentionally screw over other players, but learning how and where I can greed—even in casual content—makes it fun.

It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

This is a false equivalent. So long as people either don't die or can heal themselves up without issue, being hit by negligibly damaging AoEs is irrelevant. For example, I've ignored every single attack in E10N that requires me to disengage as a tank. Why? It literally doesn't matter. I have CDs I barely use, and even with vuln stacks his buster still doesn't do much. Therefore, why lose damage when it won't negatively impact anyone else? Which brings us back to Ice Mages. They do impact everyone else since their lack of damage directly contributes to the pull taking longer.

Put simply, greed is all about calculated risk. Standing in AoEs just because is dumb as there's no benefit other than you meme-ing. In which case, do that with friends. If you can heal yourself up or know no lethal damage will follow, then eating that AoE means nothing.

[Lumivyory]

The dev team knows the day they crack down on that website and the associated tools, is the day their raid scene dies with it. That aside, why do you get to decide what is and isn't fun? Mass pulling dungeons is the only way I feel like an actual tank because trash mobs hit like wet noodles. Thus, for me, single pulling is dreadfully boring—enough I have occasionally ate the 30 minute penalty simply because I dislike it. Likewise, trying to push damage is how I enjoy playing the game. I won't intentionally screw over other players, but learning how and where I can greed—even in casual content—makes it fun.

How would it die? Raiding exists to get better gear and have more challenging content. You don't need to compare yourself to others to be interested in raiding.

And well, just because it's fun for you it doesn't mean it's fun for everyone yet I've seen plenty of people pushing this "pull wall to wall" and "dps more" stuff onto those who don't consider this fun. I was literally told by someone here on the forums that if they were with me in a dungeon and I would single pull they would kick me.
Just recently a healer in Qitana Ravel literally Rescued me just so I'd pull everything. I hate big pulls but decided not to argue and oh boy, did I LOVE being at 10-20% HP constantly, so much fun it was, not stressful at all. /s
And then there are people that think you're not doing enough damage in their opinion so they try to tell you some nonsensical rotation they came up with, like using a Swiftcast on RDM. Man, does it trigger me every time.
So if eating AoEs with your face, giving your healer more job to do and constantly caring about how much damage you've done is fun for you - go ahead, but no need to push such playstyle on others which is what I've seen people do many times in casual content.

[Gemina]

This is a false equivalent. So long as people either don't die or can heal themselves up without issue, being hit by negligibly damaging AoEs is irrelevant. For example, I've ignored every single attack in E10N that requires me to disengage as a tank. Why? It literally doesn't matter. I have CDs I barely use, and even with vuln stacks his buster still doesn't do much. Therefore, why lose damage when it won't negatively impact anyone else? Which brings us back to Ice Mages. They do impact everyone else since their lack of damage directly contributes to the pull taking longer.

Put simply, greed is all about calculated risk. Standing in AoEs just because is dumb as there's no benefit other than you meme-ing. In which case, do that with friends. If you can heal yourself up or know no lethal damage will follow, then eating that AoE means nothing.

If you want use negligibility and irrelevancy in your argument, then the DPS gain you get by standing in an AoE- if any, also follows suit. We're talking dungeons here, remember? They don't have any kind of enrage, so even if you do have an ice mage, it also doesn't matter, and means absolutely nothing. You can argue time, but I wouldn't be using that argument if you are also going to use negligibility and meme creation. The time you will undoubtedly speak of is just as irrelevant to me, the ice mage; everyone except the person who complains about it, which basically puts you in the same boat as me when I talk about getting the eff out of AoEs, lethal or not.

Again, this isn't about uptime or damage taken. It simply shows good etiquette within your groups, as does trying to optimize and playing to the best of your ability. When all players do this, you get painless dungeon runs where everyone gets along, and they get through there asap. Most players when they see other players stand in an AoE don't think, "Oh.. he must know his limits." Usually they think you suck.

There's no greed here. At least not the kind associated with calculated risk. That happens in LoTA when one team decides to chisel away at Phlegethon's remaining health before he gets off another Acient Flare instead of retreating to their pad, or finishing TCJ when 3-4 AoE markers are right under you like I did. If there is a greed, it's the kind that says, "I can't be bothered to interrupt my casting."