DPS stressors vs. Mitigation stressors

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Word
For a long time I mained PLD for the party support and pinch clemencies.
But... the group is fine without Passage of arms, and my DRK friends were bothered when I'd use Cover or Intervention to help them... so I moved away from the job.

Pretty much nailed everything i ever couldve said as well. Lyth is right about all of it.
Even if ARR had the HOLY trinity, it was still skewed by the cross class system, they even ripped tank abilities like bloodbath off of tanks because they should be DPS actions, and people are using the holy trinity as an excuse for the role to be further butchered. Was most fun ARR to HW, got weird but managable in SB and now its just downright a joke to what it started as. As stated 1 2 3 can easilly be 1 1 1 next expansion. Carry potential was a big part of it, cause it felt great to live through that 1% etc as well.

[Elkanah]

Pretty much nailed everything i ever couldve said as well. Lyth is right about all of it.
Even if ARR had the HOLY trinity, it was still skewed by the cross class system, they even ripped tank abilities like bloodbath off of tanks because they should be DPS actions, and people are using the holy trinity as an excuse for the role to be further butchered. Was most fun ARR to HW, got weird but managable in SB and now its just downright a joke to what it started as. As stated 1 2 3 can easilly be 1 1 1 next expansion. Carry potential was a big part of it, cause it felt great to live through that 1% etc as well.

Removing Bloodbath from tanks was actually something that never made sense to me. That's something you should be able to use (especially in trash mobs and aoe). Removing the HP absorb from steel cyclone on warrior, among other HP recovery options during things that hit you more intensely. I found it odd they made it just DPS specific after those changes.

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Removing Bloodbath from tanks was actually something that never made sense to me. That's something you should be able to use (especially in trash mobs and aoe). Removing the HP absorb from steel cyclone on warrior, among other HP recovery options during things that hit you more intensely. I found it odd they made it just DPS specific after those changes.

Totally agree. And it wasnt that tanks only had it, most dps got it from cross class anyway. But again, without provoke, tanks really didnt need a cross role ability, really. Arms length is great, ill give them that, but besides those two directly, and provoke specifically, i mean...they sort of had to remove skills like brutal swing that were already there to make up some pseudo cross role list that frankly, they didnt need to. Bloodbath just makes no sense at all, cause it belonged to marauder anyway. It may be much more useful for DPS who deal more damage and get more life back as a result, but still. I mean how hard would it have been to just adjust foresight to do what rampart does instead of take it off the pld skill list? Just my gripe for sure but when B4B gets rewritten and convert gets rewritten, it just makes no sense why they couldnt just do that, except that they needed to make up some skills to make an arbitrary list that otherwise would have only had "provoke" which probably means before the change, the tanks were already fairly equal with their cd and skills, so they just deleted them and made them optional but mostly manditory anyway. They seem content with tank balance, but probably all it is really is their dps output range is where they want it...which brings us back to the discontent and main subject of this thread i guess... thats what SE considers role "balance" so...