Are all BTN stupid or is it just on my server?

[Ammokkx]

But completely crashing it in 12 hours is stupidity. And I have an economics degree before you go on about how economies work.

I said economies aren't some kind of fair game. What matters at the end of the day, for players, is whether or not they have the gil they want out of it. People don't care what the most optimal way to get that is, only that they have it at the end of the day.

Whenever I've got something to sell I undercut for the quick sale and continue to ignore the marketboard until the next thing I can undercut. All I care about is that I get a decent enough chunk of gil out of it for the times I have to spend a quick 100k on one thing or another. I had enough gil to buy someone else a full set of Neo Ishgard armor, on top of the full set I already owned, when the average piece ranged anywhere from 150k to 300k a pop, and that's while barely getting involved into the marketboard economy at all.

Not to mention the fact any gil gained from the MB economy was farmed by other players to begin with. It's a valid way to make money, but not everyone is gonna give much of a damn about stabilizing it when most of us just need enough to get by to do what we need to do.

[Vickii]

I said economies aren't some kind of fair game. What matters at the end of the day, for players, is whether or not they have the gil they want out of it. People don't care what the most optimal way to get that is, only that they have it at the end of the day.

Whenever I've got something to sell I undercut for the quick sale and continue to ignore the marketboard until the next thing I can undercut. All I care about is that I get a decent enough chunk of gil out of it for the times I have to spend a quick 100k on one thing or another. I had enough gil to buy someone else a full set of Neo Ishgard armor, on top of the full set I already owned, when the average piece ranged anywhere from 150k to 300k a pop, and that's while barely getting involved into the marketboard economy at all.

Not to mention the fact any gil gained from the MB economy was farmed by other players to begin with. It's a valid way to make money, but not everyone is gonna give much of a damn about stabilizing it when most of us just need enough to get by to do what we need to do.

Oh it’s fine that you don’t want to stabilise the economy. But by undercutting by so much and actively destroying the economy you effectively hurt yourself, hence my saying it was stupid. It is.

Put it this way.... pretend we’re talking about real money here. You have made something that you can sell for £8000. It may sit in your storefront for a few hours but you make £8000 profit. Or you can put it for £50 and the first person to walk past your shop will bite your hand off for you.

This is the situation yesterday. There was no supply and demand issue, just a time it takes to sell issue. So effectively they valued an hour or twos wait as 7,500. It’s stupid, there’s no justification unless they really desperately needed 500 right that moment.

[tdb]

This is just how things go. It's not just Botanists either. Everyone is looking to undercut everyone so their item gets sold faster, that, or it's bots doing it automatically. It's beyond me why people don't just mimic the sale price of items on there already to keep things steady, with maybe a dip over time. More money for all! That's just not reality though.

Undercutting is natural since price is the only thing you can compete with. You can't make your items better than everyone else's, or sell them at a more convenient location. You can't make them in a different design and try to start a brand. The complaint isn't that undercutting is happening, it's that players undercut by absurdly large amounts, like going straight from 2.5 million to 1.6 million. I doubt that's even going to result in a faster sale on patch day, since the people in a hurry to get their gear are probably not hurting for money.

[Vickii]

Oh it’s fine that you don’t want to stabilise the economy. But by undercutting by so much and actively destroying the economy you effectively hurt yourself, hence my saying it was stupid. It is.

Put it this way.... pretend we’re talking about real money here. You have made something that you can sell for £8000. It may sit in your storefront for a few hours but you make £8000 profit. Or you can put it for £50 and the first person to walk past your shop will bite your hand off for you.

This is the situation yesterday. There was no supply and demand issue, just a time it takes to sell issue. So effectively they valued an hour or twos wait as 7,500. It’s stupid, there’s no justification unless they really desperately needed 500 right that moment.

Also to add to this, you can literally obtain 70 percent of items on the game, undercut them on the market board to make 500 Gil.

This item is a 3 star item that comes with the highest level requirement, gear requirement and requires you to have grinded for a book to be able to obtain that item. So why are you going to sell it for less profit than a piece of leather you randomly obtain? Makes literally no sense besides the fact that it’s a game, not real money and you don’t really care.

But you’ve put an awful low value on your time and effort to be able to get that item. May as well just keep it and let others do the reading.

[Vickii]

If I may impose on you for a bit, I'm kinda curious to hear if what I posted above about video game vs. real world economies makes any sense? I don't have an economics degree so it's mostly my own general experience and deduction.

Sure, it’s generally on the money. Real economies have laws on monopolies and things that obviously don’t impact video games. And as it’s not real money and many people don’t see their time as money it’s far more volatile. Time is your only real overhead vs a business having to pay materials, suppliers. A shop keeper may cut their price to match their neighbours but neither of them are going to make it non profitable for themselves because otherwise what’s the point?

For instance take those new housing cabinets you can buy from a housing vendor for 12,000. People bought them and tried to sell them for 1 mill then 20,000 now they’re on the MB for 6,000. The players are making a 6k loss on them if they’re selling them at all. That’s not going to happen much in real life because the sellers will go bust. Perhaps a company will gamble on a product but it will all be acceptable loss planned out ahead of time. Breaking even wouldn’t be uncommon but they’d rarely sell for a loss.

Real businesses also don’t have to worry about bots (although you could argue that China and many third world countries effectively are ‘botting’ with mass production and cheap labour.. but again there’s laws to protect economies against this).

You could certainly have a more realistic economy in an MMO but there would have to be rules because while one player is willing to cut the price in half and other players are willing to sink to his level, it’s always going to shrink.

[Kewitt]

The reason is... Good crafters Gather their own items. 100% profit.
So they only goto the market boards if they think it's worth their time. 8k well I can teleport for 999 gil spend 5 mins get 40 items... DONE!

Edit,
I have so much gil I can't spend it.
The only thing that is a really gil sink for people who can make gil easily is housing, and there isn't enough of that.

If I try to make gil I shot for 1m/hour.
Which usually is very easy to do.

Also note, It's very easy to gather items vs the time and understanding to HQ new items.

My Hubby loves Gathering. HATE CRAFTING because he just doesn't want to take the time to learn it or he learns it and takes and break and it's overhauled. But he has all but 2 crafts at 80.
He also is very close to 50k HQ items. But he only does low level items.

[ElHeggunte]

I do this as a crafter, I’ll take over an entire market section. First I start by crafting 40 items of what ever is selling the fastest. The. I start my listing 1000 Gil to 10k Gil under the last listed item. Then I go all the way down to about 1000 Gil. Completely destroying the pricing of that item and making ME the only one you buy the items from.

This kinda how our market works today. The one who has the most supplies and for the cheapest is the one you want. And since I am a crafter and a gatherer, it costs me NO Gil to over run a market. And I have no shame in destroying markets this way either.

Cry harder.

But... why? Not why are you doing it, but why this method? You’re leaving a lot of Gil on the table for no reason doing it like this. It can’t be for the sake of expedience, you claim to only do this for items that sell fast anyway. It can’t even be to monopolize an item, because as a previous poster points out, your method is easily undermined. You would be far better off holding to a higher price point and buying out anyone who undercuts you, relisting their product for a profit. Or at least when you crash the price, buy up everything and resell it for a higher price.

[Gemina]

Also to add to this, you can literally obtain 70 percent of items on the game, undercut them on the market board to make 500 Gil.

This item is a 3 star item that comes with the highest level requirement, gear requirement and requires you to have grinded for a book to be able to obtain that item. So why are you going to sell it for less profit than a piece of leather you randomly obtain? Makes literally no sense besides the fact that it’s a game, not real money and you don’t really care.

But you’ve put an awful low value on your time and effort to be able to get that item. May as well just keep it and let others do the reading.

This is basically why I stay far away from the first come/first serve shark waters that is patch day. Trying to compete with the masses is a complete and utter waste of my time. It's not that my items would not sell; I just know they are going to sell for much less than when I initially look up the going rate, and trying to monopolize anything with the time I can put into the game is futile. I don't even consider myself 'economy savvy', and I know that when value depreciates as quickly as the afore mentioned items in this thread do, it is probably not the best idea to invest time and gil into them.

The game's currency might be play money, but the value any individual places on it can and will bleed over into the real world as the majority of us play the game at the cost of RL time and money. By this, I mean that every player has to determine how best to spend their time in game, and I am just not sure if those whom are frustrated are looking into if they are spending their time in a manner that is really worth it.

[tdb]

For instance take those new housing cabinets you can buy from a housing vendor for 12,000. People bought them and tried to sell them for 1 mill then 20,000 now they’re on the MB for 6,000. The players are making a 6k loss on them if they’re selling them at all. That’s not going to happen much in real life because the sellers will go bust. Perhaps a company will gamble on a product but it will all be acceptable loss planned out ahead of time. Breaking even wouldn’t be uncommon but they’d rarely sell for a loss.

Real world history is littered with failed product launches which ended up in the bargain bin within a month and their makers went bankrupt, but where a fool falls down two others rise to repeat the mistake. In a video game though there's no pressing need to get it sold now (unless maybe you're really tight on inventory slots), so selling at a loss doesn't make much sense.

[tdb]

This is basically why I stay far away from the first come/first serve shark waters that is patch day. Trying to compete with the masses is a complete and utter waste of my time. It's not that my items would not sell; I just know they are going to sell for much less than when I initially look up the going rate, and trying to monopolize anything with the time I can put into the game is futile. I don't even consider myself 'economy savvy', and I know that when value depreciates as quickly as the afore mentioned items in this thread do, it is probably not the best idea to invest time and gil into them.

I didn't even bother doing any market research, just crafted a bunch of items. Most of them turned out to sell for around 2 million apiece. Unfortunately I have IRL work to do as well, but may I'll still have time for another crafting round before the prices are completely deflated.