Is it OK to use bots in FFXIV?

[Veliaire]

*Bump* because this is a serious issue that needs more attention. I am sick of all the bots in this game, and nothing being done about them. Its getting to the point where I don't get any joy out of the game because I love to craft and do housing, but all the bots have sucked the fun out of it.

[Kaurhz]

It's not ok to bot, and neither should you. I would say it undervalues the effort people put into the game, which is true for some people, but equally, so it kills any enjoyment and achievement you get in the game since ultimately it is largely predicated on the tools you used rather than your own personal effort and time

*Bump* because this is a serious issue that needs more attention. I am sick of all the bots in this game, and nothing being done about them. Its getting to the point where I don't get any joy out of the game because I love to craft and do housing, but all the bots have sucked the fun out of it.

As much as it deserves attention, it's definitely not a simple undertaking like many would think, especially since people that do the code can equally find ways to subvert any effort, time, and budget that would actually be given to such a project. A lot of trials and errors to get something that works, so as quick as you get rid of them, just as quickly as they come back since they will just simply start fresh. Not to mention some efforts that could be taken, would in the end only inconvenience the player more than it would with botting. That being said SE support could definitely do a better job in handling botters or such.. E.g. if someone is mentioned through several reports they should be on a list that actively monitors the behavior of the account/character to determine whether or not said behavior is that of a human or not.

[MsMisato]

It's not ok to bot, and neither should you. I would say it undervalues the effort people put into the game, which is true for some people, but equally, so it kills any enjoyment and achievement you get in the game since ultimately it is largely predicated on the tools you used rather than your own personal effort and time



As much as it deserves attention, it's definitely not a simple undertaking like many would think, especially since people that do the code can equally find ways to subvert any effort, time, and budget that would actually be given to such a project. A lot of trials and errors to get something that works, so as quick as you get rid of them, just as quickly as they come back since they will just simply start fresh. Not to mention some efforts that could be taken, would in the end only inconvenience the player more than it would with botting. That being said SE support could definitely do a better job in handling botters or such.. E.g. if someone is mentioned through several reports they should be on a list that actively monitors the behavior of the account/character to determine whether or not said behavior is that of a human or not.

however, i think its worth to point even if you report themv via in game, the GMs will refuse to do any type of action against bot. They will refer you to whatever link they send for the STF in the GM call notice but that's about it and thats what people have to do. I think once people see nothing can be done in game, when they are there and the bots are still there, its just kind of a moot point and its to simply quit. I mean go to crystal. Bots are rampant due to it having a majority of preferred worlds. I got tons of screenshots. Whats disappointing is GMs are quick to ban people via video streams and such but they won't take action when something like botting is being reported and in real time.

[Veliaire]

As much as it deserves attention, it's definitely not a simple undertaking like many would think, especially since people that do the code can equally find ways to subvert any effort, time, and budget that would actually be given to such a project.

I disagree. It's as easy as following through with a report and suspending accounts guilty of bot behavior. It's as simple as a GM monitoring a character and seeing that they are doing actions 24/7 with no rest.. Its as easy as seeing a character undercutting everyone on the MB with over 40 retainers, within 20 minutes of a price change.

Its not hard. It doesn't require some sweeping change in the game's code, or a fundamental change in how the game is played. It only requires a minimal amount of attention to be placed on the issue.

[Kaurhz]

I disagree. It's as easy as following through with a report and suspending accounts guilty of bot behavior. It's as simple as a GM monitoring a character and seeing that they are doing actions 24/7 with no rest.. Its as easy as seeing a character undercutting everyone on the MB with over 40 retainers, within 20 minutes of a price change.

Its not hard. It doesn't require some sweeping change in the game's code, or a fundamental change in how the game is played. It only requires a minimal amount of attention to be placed on the issue.

If you look at botting is just a singular person issue or an infrequent issue then yes, of course, monitoring that is an easy undertaking for someone, but when you multiple that singular person by potentially thousands and thousands of reports, with many more reports amongst those already potentially being false and someone feeling griefed, then you are not going to be looking at a minimal undertaking. The volume of people undertaking it changes that effort dramatically, at which point you are looking for more automated systems to analyze behavior because it simply isn't really feasible for a relatively small team to undertake it. Barring a person having 40 retainers as that is insane and a case of the blatantly obvious, especially if in fact true. But if profit margins are there then people will be willing to undercut fairly frequently (If you don't get the sale someone else does, and then they resupply), and a lot of people find it inconceivable that a person would be willing to do this, but they will, and many of them will end up being reported anyway.

[Veliaire]

If you look at botting is just a singular person issue or an infrequent issue then yes, of course, monitoring that is an easy undertaking for someone, but when you multiple that singular person by potentially thousands and thousands of reports, with many more reports amongst those already potentially being false and someone feeling griefed, then you are not going to be looking at a minimal undertaking. The volume of people undertaking it changes that effort dramatically, at which point you are looking for more automated systems to analyze behavior because it simply isn't really feasible for a relatively small team to undertake it. Barring a person having 40 retainers as that is insane and a case of the blatantly obvious, especially if in fact true. But if profit margins are there then people will be willing to undercut fairly frequently (If you don't get the sale someone else does, and then they resupply), and a lot of people find it inconceivable that a person would be willing to do this, but they will, and many of them will end up being reported anyway.

If I were to call you a name in game, and you report me, I would be dealt with rather quickly. The reason the same attention isn't paid to bot reports is because there is probably some policy to ignore said reports and stick with whatever internal means of looking for bot activity they have. For one of the most popular SUBSCRIPTION BASED mmorpgs out there, "its too hard" isn't a good excuse to at least attempt to prevent market breaking activities from happening.

The reason they put so much resources into policing language and negative behavior with regards to other players, is because people are more likely to respond to bad behavior like harassment with quitting the game.. which means less profit for them. Not enough people quit because of bots, so they don't really seem to care if an economy is wrecked.

[Kaurhz]

If I were to call you a name in game, and you report me, I would be dealt with rather quickly. The reason the same attention isn't paid to bot reports is because there is probably some policy to ignore said reports and stick with whatever internal means of looking for bot activity they have. For one of the most popular SUBSCRIPTION BASED mmorpgs out there, "its too hard" isn't a good excuse to at least attempt to prevent market breaking activities from happening.

The reason they put so much resources into policing language and negative behavior with regards to other players, is because people are more likely to respond to bad behavior like harassment with quitting the game.. which means less profit for them. Not enough people quit because of bots, so they don't really seem to care if an economy is wrecked.

I mean whether it is being handled efficiently or not, to handle botting in any major scope, which when you consider all the reports being pushed out, and all the players on the game itself that actively play it is a method which quite dramatically clogs down resources that could otherwise be used elsewhere, which is why I think looking at automated methods is all that more important.

On the comment of comparing it to that of harassment, that's a hard one to compare, irrespective of the effectiveness of a team. You're given a report and it explicitly states the details, all they need to do is reference the log and the evidence is there with a couple of lines of conversation. Then a GM can just simply follow-up and act according to 'policies'. But a lot of bot reports, some will be a simple 5-minute check (e.g. going from 1 side of the map to the other without the aid of aetheryte is technically impossible without third-party tools), but someone doing an 8-hour gathering session may not be so obvious, so such things need a lot more eye to detail, especially to avoid banning innocent people. I do think a better job could be done, but that's only a band-aid in the end.

I do agree that it's a massive problem, just not so much that it is a 'simple solution', at least I can't see it being such!

[Kes13a]

I do agree that it's a massive problem, just not so much that it is a 'simple solution', at least I can't see it being such!

failing to do much of anything isnt going to make the problem go away either. FF XIV is regarded as a "bot friendly game in the botting communities". why? because it is VERY well known SE does virtually nothing against serious botters in NA and EU and pretty much just content themselves banning teh most obvious bots like RMT barkers and the droves of kjsdghfskjdfh kjshdfkjsdhf harvesters

[tdb]

It's not ok to bot, and neither should you. I would say it undervalues the effort people put into the game, which is true for some people, but equally, so it kills any enjoyment and achievement you get in the game since ultimately it is largely predicated on the tools you used rather than your own personal effort and time

Well, there's some aspects of the game which are fairly unfun. One such aspect is crafting things for the DoH relic tools. Pressing a macro button hundreds of times at half-minute intervals is not what I consider fun. Of course that doesn't make it ok to bot, but it's easy to understand why there's desire for it.

[Kes13a]

Well, there's some aspects of the game which are fairly unfun. One such aspect is crafting things for the DoH relic tools. Pressing a macro button hundreds of times at half-minute intervals is not what I consider fun. Of course that doesn't make it ok to bot, but it's easy to understand why there's desire for it.

should try DoL relics....