I heard the Special Task Force is going to hitt the bots hard now, that the patch has

[Prrringles]

I would have to agree.

yes, bots will always be a problem, yes, they are everywhere because cheating is easier than doing it yourself.

however other games actually TRY to do something about it. despite some protestations to the contrary, on the NA/EU servers SE appears to have given up even that pretense. we are expected to cheer because they banned some hacked accounts and botting so obvious it staggers the imagination. I apologize to the enablers for having expectations a little higher than banning of a couple hundred bots even a 5 year old could spot.

Right. And those bans achieve exactly nothing. It's just propaganda to legitimize the STF. The shout bots they so vigorously ban are no factor. The real baddies are the craft bots and market board bots. Exactly the bots SE does nothing about. I'm sure those bots mentioned in the doc have been reported multiple times so you can't tell me SE does not know about them. They are allowing it, turning the blind eye, period. But calling someone a doodoo will get you suspended instantly though because "this is a game for all ages". Rofl.

I'm selling Neo gear at 40k now, netting me maybe 10k profit if the price for materials is right. The bots on Moogle won't undercut those below 40k it seems so yeah..great..right? Man, this game (the market part of it) is in a sad, sad state.

[Angelhearth]

When you start accusing others of having hidden agendas, you've stepped over the line into harassment.

Not really.

[Kleeya]

I'm selling Neo gear at 40k now, netting me maybe 10k profit if the price for materials is right. The bots on Moogle won't undercut those below 40k it seems so yeah..great..right? Man, this game (the market part of it) is in a sad, sad state.

Crafted stuff has always been profitable the first days when it is new, and a few days later the prices are going way down. We are so late in the patch with on top of that a several months delay due to covid, that you can not expect the prices to stay high. Especially when many people, instead of continuing to buy things at the market board, did begin to craft them by themselves thanks to the Ishgard reconstruction and the crafting rework. And also when everyone is waiting for the next sets of 5.4 crafted gear, keeping their gils for that instead of wanting to buy old overpriced outdated stuff.

I am not saying that there isn't a bots problem, but even without them Neo gear wouldn't look like the best thing to sell at the moment.

[Prrringles]

Crafted stuff has always been profitable the first days when it is new, and a few days later the prices are going way down. We are so late in the patch with on top of that a several months delay due to covid, that you can not expect the prices to stay high. Especially when many people, instead of continuing to buy things at the market board, did begin to craft them by themselves thanks to the Ishgard reconstruction and the crafting rework. And also when everyone is waiting for the next sets of 5.4 crafted gear, keeping their gils for that instead of wanting to buy old overpriced outdated stuff.

I am not saying that there isn't a bots problem, but even without them Neo gear wouldn't look like the best thing to sell at the moment.

Neo gear was just an example and it still sells well. Even Facet gear still sells. Anyway, my point was that it has come down to me (us) selling out at bargain prices to "compete" with bots unless you camp the bell. And I am pretty sure most people have better things to do. Also, eventhough many people have all their crafts on 80 due to ishgard (thx SE) not many of them actually sell enough stuff to form any threat or move the market in a significant way. It's just bots man. Glamour items (which always stay relevant and move fast) have the same problem. Bots undercut you so frequent that your items will never sell. The only solution is to go so low that they stop undercutting. That's my point.

[Jojoya]

Right. And those bans achieve exactly nothing. It's just propaganda to legitimize the STF. The shout bots they so vigorously ban are no factor. The real baddies are the craft bots and market board bots. Exactly the bots SE does nothing about. I'm sure those bots mentioned in the doc have been reported multiple times so you can't tell me SE does not know about them. They are allowing it, turning the blind eye, period. But calling someone a doodoo will get you suspended instantly though because "this is a game for all ages". Rofl.

I'm selling Neo gear at 40k now, netting me maybe 10k profit if the price for materials is right. The bots on Moogle won't undercut those below 40k it seems so yeah..great..right? Man, this game (the market part of it) is in a sad, sad state.

Let's keep it honest. The real baddies are the players who engage in RMT or otherwise like to cheat to get what they want. They're the reason why the bots exist.

Ban the bots and more bots appear because there are still players looking to buy to satisfy their cheating ways. Ban the players willing to buy and the bots disappear because there is no customer to sell to.

You're never going to convince the average player that market bots are the worst when that player only sees the immediate benefit they provide by lowering market prices. The average player, after all, doesn't make the majority of their gil by selling crafted goods on the marketboard. They make it from selling creature/dungeon drops or doing other content.

Are market bots bad? Yes. Are the worst? No, not by a long shot. They're not the ones engaging in account compromises, stealing player account and payment information. The real life impact of RMT on people and business is far worse than having to sell virtual goods at a lower virtual currency price in a game.

As for Neo-Ishgardian: it's been available for 9 months now, Normal Eden's Verse gear is the same ilvl but free just for running the raids over and over, Allegory and Savage Eden's Verse gear have been better the entire time and new crafted gear that's 30 ilvls higher is coming out in a couple of weeks. Of course prices have bottomed out, demand for it is close to non-existent especially with new crafted gear being added in a few weeks.

If you want to profit, you need to sell what the player wants today or tomorrow instead of what they wanted 6 months ago.

[Prrringles]

Let's keep it honest. The real baddies are the players who engage in RMT or otherwise like to cheat to get what they want. They're the reason why the bots exist.

OR ban all the bots (which are easier to find) so there will be no more supply to fill the demand. Don't blame people for using a service that should not even be available. People always find the road with the least resistance. This is coded into our DNA. Also, SE endorses this service and thus it continues to exist. I am not saying players who buy gil are not a problem but it is only a problem because there is a supply.

Sure, more bots will appear when their accounts get banned. But it takes at least some time to start over. If SE was more aggressive with monitoring and banning these accounts I am sure there would be close to ZERO bots left to undercut our items. JP servers are clean because SE wants them to be clean. So don't tell me SE can't find and ban bot accounts.

You're never going to convince the average player...

The "average player" is no factor. Why do you even bring this up? Bots are a problem to (hardcore) crafters (a decent chunk of the player base that also pay a monthly fee), not the average pleb selling dungeon drops lol.

Are market bots bad? Yes. Are the worst? No, not by a long shot. They're not the ones engaging in account compromises, stealing player account and payment information...

Source for this? Show some form of evidence to support this claim pls. This "problem" is a "problem" EVERYWHERE mate, not only in ffxiv. And I can tell you that most people lose their stuff because their security is half-assed. Those few individuals losing their stuff has probably zero impact in ffxiv. People are responsible for their own security.

As for Neo-Ishgardian: it's been available for 9 months now, Normal Eden's Verse gear is the same ilvl but free just for running the raids over and over, Allegory and Savage Eden's Verse gear have been better the entire time and new crafted gear that's 30 ilvls higher is coming out in a couple of weeks...

Do you even craft? Neo gear (the highest available gear you can buy) is still bought all day long. People buy this for their fresh 80 toons BEFORE they start all the activities you mention. Do I need to keep going why Neo gear is still very relevant? I don't know you so sorry if I'm wrong here, but you don't seem to know what you talk about. ALL of that Neo gear is selling for AT LEAST double of the price I am listing it for. Most worlds on Chaos data centre sell it between 80-200k and in quantities of 4-8 a day -- do the math. I'm selling out at 40k a piece to cancel bot activity. Prices would otherwise be between 80-200k if bots can do their business.

[Kes13a]

OR ban all the bots (which are easier to find) so there will be no more supply to fill the demand. Don't blame people for using a service that should not even be available. People always find the road with the least resistance. This is coded into our DNA. Also, SE endorses this service and thus it continues to exist. I am not saying players who buy gil are not a problem but it is only a problem because there is a supply.

Sure, more bots will appear when their accounts get banned. But it takes at least some time to start over. If SE was more aggressive with monitoring and banning these accounts I am sure there would be close to ZERO bots left to undercut our items. JP servers are clean because SE wants them to be clean. So don't tell me SE can't find and ban bot accounts.

Not only that, but if they REALLY wanted to go after RMT... the large bot rings are responsible for supplying the gil for RMT. so if you remove those ones, and I am not talking about just the crafters at the top, but the entire ring that crosses servers... from the crafters down to the various bot sellers you hinder the entire operation.

it comes down to the STF team is based in Japan, they are focused on the Japanese servers, and NA/EU are ignored. simple as that. not just ignored, but almost actively encouraged it seems. yeah, we dont know what they do, we cant comment on their... "workload" but we can comment on the results of their impact here... which quite frankly if I worked like that I would be fired.

[Jojoya]

snip.

You better believe I'm blaming the buyer. No one is forced to buy.
A seller without a buyer isn't accomplishing anything other than wasting their time.
But good to know you're a true supporter of RMT, telling others it okay to use it since it's there. You are helping to perpetuate the problem.

Bots always come back. Decades of MMO history full of bot bans and yet they're still here.
And now they can come back faster than ever in FFXIV thanks to recent changes that help speed up leveling.
You're naïve if you think a few bans will get them to disappear when there are still customers willing to pay for their services. They're a business, not children who give up after a few frustrations.

The average player is very much a factor. Who do you is think is buying what you list on the marketboard, the other hardcore crafters?
You probably should ditch that snobbish attitude you're displaying. If you slip and post it in public forums, word might spread. But then I suppose you don't care, you only care about the gil you make off the "plebs".

Source is how the marketboard works? There's no account information exchanged in a marketboard transaction, only the name of the purchasing character. Me buying an item off the MB gives the seller absolutely no information they can use to compromise my account. Perhaps you should provide your source that its the market bots doing the account compromises.

By the way, thanks for agreeing that the problem exists in other games as well. Every time I say that, people jump down my throat insisting it's exclusively a FFXIV problem.

Yes, I'm a crafter. Get that nose out of the clouds, you're not the only player capable of crafting Neo-Ishgardian, nor are you the only one selling it. I never said Neo-Ishgardian isn't selling at all. I said the demand has dried up and the prices have decreased as a result. 80k for 4-8 sales is supposed to be a big deal when there were originally dozens of sales at over half a million per piece even on my low pop server?

If all that gear is selling for at least double what you list it for, why did you sink the price on your world so low and screw the other legitimate crafters there out of profit they could have been making? That wasn't considerate, nor does it seem smart unless your real goal was to drive them out of business.

It makes even less sense when you walk in here complaining that you're selling items at a price not worth the effort when you were the one who intentionally set that price far below what it could have been.

It's not going to do anything to "cancel bot activity". You don't have the selling power as a single player to monopolize the market and shut them out. To do that, you'd need to get multiple accounts with multiple characters to increase the number of listings available to you. And suddenly, you're the bot in other players' eyes.

[Angelhearth]

If SE was more aggressive with monitoring and banning these accounts I am sure there would be close to ZERO bots left to undercut our items. JP servers are clean because SE wants them to be clean. So don't tell me SE can't find and ban bot accounts.

I think one of the reason they don't have such a problem on the Japanese servers is the very DNA of the Japanese people, they adhere to rules in a whole different way than us westerners. I guess living in an overpopulated country makes you understand how important it is to follow laws and rules, written and unwritten.

ps
This is written out of admiration of the Japanese people, and is in no way meant negatively.

[yuipaaa]

HAHAHAHAH sorry but market bots crafting and gathering are here to stay don't like it play another game, most bot/RMT friendly game on the market.




Bot approved!