OTP confirmed (Eden spoilers, re: 5.4)

[Yandere-chan]

Most people consider it acceptable to be violent in real life under certain circumstances. The same cannot be said of many sexual transgressions.

That depends on the violent actions in question, as does the sexual ones. E.g. Many consider it a sexual transgression to have sex with the same sex for instance. Others do not.

Many also think random mass murdering for pleasure is perhaps the ultimate crime or in the running for it. But, that's what we casually do in video games, well, many of us anyways.

The point is, many who play games or when looking at fiction in general, separate it from reality, and adjust their morals in context to doing so. Thus why things we have no problem with in a fictional setting, we would if a comparable circumstance happened in real life. The disconnect between such people and yourself is simply in that separation. We'd agree about the same things in real life (or mostly at least), it's really just how we see fiction that would be in contention.

With that said, no real people can be harmed in fiction. So, there isn't really any consequence to it anyways. If I murdered in cold blood countless innocent men, women, and children on a whim in a game, it has no negative effect on anyone. The same is true for any other act in that same context. So, it really shouldn't matter that we don't see fiction in the same way in regard to moral outlooks when no one can be harmed and we are generally going to be in agreement about morals in our actual reality.

[Seraphor]

Tbf, romance stories don't need to be sexualised, and especially in terms of same-sex romances which tend to be 'coming of age' stories as well, thus more likely to involve teens.

However, this is 'anime-ish' and lesbian, which in itself tends to be a highly sexualised category.

[Yencat]

With that said, no real people can be harmed in fiction.

Completely agree, in this case it's harmless because it's about fictional characters.

In general though the "holding hands = confirmed gay" rhetoric is harmful though. Someone else in the thread mentioned that if they were two guys they'd probably be more convinced they were in fact gay because they never see male friends holding hands, and looking at this thread is it any surprise why they don't?

"Doing X doesn't make you gay, being gay makes you gay. Until we're into it, then doing X totally makes you confirmed gay."

[Yandere-chan]

Completely agree, in this case it's harmless because it's about fictional characters.

In general though the "holding hands = confirmed gay" rhetoric is harmful though. Someone else in the thread mentioned that if they were two guys they'd probably be more convinced they were in fact gay because they never see male friends holding hands, and looking at this thread is it any surprise why they don't?

"Doing X doesn't make you gay, being gay makes you gay. Until we're into it, then doing X totally makes you confirmed gay."

I see what you're getting at, but I don't agree with some of the conclusions you've come to.

For one, I'm not sure if it's fair to assume the OP to be especially serious about the art confirming the two are gay. In truth, I would say it could be a nudge that they are, but it may not be as well. I don't see it as harmful in and of itself to see such a picture and be excited at the possibility of it being a nudge and going a step further to say it confirms they are gay to take a certain satisfaction in standing firm in that belief. If someone truly believes it absolutely proves they are gay, then they would be wrong, but I'm not sure of what the consequence of that error in judgement would really be. If anything, it would just mean they are potentially let down if it doesn't end up being so clearly confirmed in the final product. But, even then, I imagine they could just speculate that they are gay and the art lends itself to that theory and they could simply treat it as if its canon. This too wouldn't be an issue unless they lash out on others for not conforming to what would still be speculation. Then again, I think lashing out at others over such things to be too far regardless. Surely, more civil alternatives are possible.

For two, the reason why I think that other person believes two guys doing it would be more credible (I could be wrong, I'm only speculating) is likely because in their culture, or the one they grew up in or such, it's probably less common for guys to hold hands unless they are something other than friends. Even then, it still wouldn't be an absolute confirmation. I think, again, that such a notion can be pushed out without it being entirely serious. At least, in my experience, people will sometimes act like something is confirmed when it is only actually only hinted at being the case, as a social gesture. Partially humor, but more so playfulness, I'd say.

Regardless, I don't take an issue with the OP's post, and I can relate to their enthusiasm. I take it less as it being literal, and more so as showing support and solidarity with the desire. I don't think anything malicious was intended with it.

[swiss_Momo]

Official Twitter account agrees btw

https://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status...486250496?s=19

[BokoToloko]

The trending to use every small sign of affection to ship two person is pretty common in most fanbases, specially in anime fanbase. You see this anime girl patting anime boy should and getting a bit close to him? Boom, you get fans shipping both.

It's almost as relationships between friendsa should come with a 1 meter separation in order to be friendship. It seems really weird to me that any bit of intimacy or affection is tantamount to a romatic relationship.

Also, interactions between Ryne and Gaia don't really deviate from the average anime teenage girl friendship.

Also, I'm pretty skeptical about many anime and japanese videogames depictions of lesbian relationship as in most contents they give mostly an impression of fetishizing them for a male audience (not really wanting to fall into politics here) rather than representing them as what they are, a kinds of relationship as normal as any hetero relationship. (this is definitely going to get me angry responses)

[Yencat]

I don't think anything malicious was intended with it.

Oh I doubt there was as well, all I've commented on is that I think saying holding hands = gay is ridiculous and I stand by that. The fact that most cultures are the way they are (where I live as well) about guys holding hands didn't just manifest out of thin air after all, it was more an observation of the double standard we have about girls holding hands vs. guys when either can be friendship or something more.

What Gaia and Ryne are, or are not, is extremely unlikely to be further explored in game so it's of little consequence and people can read into it however they wish.

[Novae]

As long as we get a good story and an even better ending, I don't care about them them being gay or not. For me, they are the Oracle of Light and Darkness before everything else.

[LineageRazor]

It looks very much like an example of a Romantic Two-Girl Friendship, a VERY common trope in Japanese media, and one that's actually kinda harmful to the cause of ACTUAL Japanese lesbians because it's assumed to be just a phase of youth ("practice" romance, essentially), and one that the girls are expected to eventually grow out of (so they can form "real" romances with men).

Because shippers are a big part of any fandom, don't expect them to discourage folks from thinking these two might really be in love.

Because lesbianism is a taboo in many cultures, don't expect them to confrim that these two might really be in love, either.

It's a wishy-washy phenomenon that I presonally find rather crass. Either commit to it and make it clear that it is, or make it clear it's not. To just give winks and nudges and let everyone form their own conclusions - I find that to be rather pandering.

[Yandere-chan]

Also, I'm pretty skeptical about many anime and japanese videogames depictions of lesbian relationship as in most contents they give mostly an impression of fetishizing them for a male audience (not really wanting to fall into politics here) rather than representing them as what they are, a kinds of relationship as normal as any hetero relationship. (this is definitely going to get me angry responses)

Fetishizing for a male audience? That seems rather male-centric in and of itself to even say. Just because some guys take interest in something doesn't mean it's exclusively for this vague notion of a male audience, as if guys are somehow not individuals foremost just like us girls. Also, normal relationship? Who are you or any particular person to even decide what is or isn't normal? And what does that as a value judgement even mean? What if a relationship isn't normal to you? Does that mean it is somehow less valid? Criticizing something for not being what you find normal comes off as rather judgmental and intolerant. Depending on the context, even imperialistic.

How about this, anyone is open to take interest in such relationship depictions, men or women, regardless of their sexual orientation, or even disinterest for that matter. Vague stereotypes based on speculation and rumor spreading being super imposed onto demographics be damned. Whether or not it's a "normal" relationship to me or anyone else seems completely unimportant and valueless to even take in consideration. Regardless, such pairings aren't exclusively for or owned by contrived ideas of the "male audience" or the "male gaze." I for one tend to enjoy such relationship depictions while not falling into either overly generalizing term.

If it isn't for you, that's perfectly fine, but I see such notions like what you stated as nothing more than veiled attempts at attacking such depictions from even existing, mispresenting their audience as an imagined absolute with a super assuming generalization of what that fake absolute sees life as through their perspective. Completely absurd and equally absurd if applied for any other imagined absolute as well. Men and women both are the audience and neither are a hivemind regardless of what percentage happens to be made up of either demographic at any singular specific point in time. Both are made up of individuals who think for their selves. Truly, the individual is the most oppressed minority in human existence.