Could there be a relatively peaceful solution to the shard problem?

[Morningstar1337]

Not unanimously, no, but I suspect that those that have the echo would be uplifted to that power and maybe that longevity as well. Which would still leave some mortals around but also means that rejoining would still have some newly minted gods...

And that is a problem because even if the Ascians just stopped at merging all the worlds and not feed everyone to Zodiark, that would mean there are some new gods of mortal origin that might seek to exploit their newfound powers to stand atop of the hierarchies...and create them themselves.

[Iscah]

I still don't see any reason to assume that restoring humanity to an unsundered state would automatically be linked to a return to Amaurot's peaceful state - assuming that even existed "because Ancients are inherently like that" and not because they were a single cloistered society taught to conform, only expressing their private views when debating for the sake of debating and not calling for actual change...

[YianKutku]

The goal is to elevate the races of the world to the former immortal, godlike state the Ancients enjoyed, and hopefully also form a society that is similarly peaceful (that peace most likely made possible because their godlike abilities allowed them to live in a post-scarcity capacity).

We don't actually know if everyone will turn into near-immortal Ancients when Unsundered. (Ancients are definitely not immortal, but they certainly lived much longer than we do.) The Convocation wanted to sacrifice the "new life" that rose upon the planet after the apocalypse, so there are presumably "lesser" lives present that got Sundered as well. And judging from the short stories we've gotten, it's implied that some of the Amaurotines (certainly many on the Convocation) see other people as "lesser".

We're also told (via out-of-game dev interview answers) that everyone on every shard is a Sundered Ancient soul. So that means this "new life" counts as Ancient souls. And presumably Alpha's new soul as of the end of the Omega questline counts as a sundered Ancient soul as well? I don't even know.

So my point is that we have no guarantee all the souls will turn into full-powered godlike Ancient souls upon being Unsundered. There must be at least some "lesser" souls, which the Convocation was planning to sacrifice.

[Jandor]

I always assumed the new life was the various races that exist today.

It doesn't make a great deal of sense that the ancients would sacrifice new ancients to bring back old ancients. A bunch of new races though? Races that were seeded by their god, and therefore by proxy by them. Races that can barely live to a hundred years and are worn out well before that. Well, they're barely alive in comparison, or so the argument would go at least.

"Hey, if we sacrifice this thing that'll be dead in a hundred years anyway, we can bring back your friend who had at least another couple millennia in him."

I hate to say it, but I suspect I'd be at least a little bit tempted.

"Hey, should we kill all these new members of our species to bring back the dead ones we killed to create them?"

Lot less tempting that, and kinda stupid, like slaughtering your way through a maternity ward to resurrect Grandpa.

[Kesey]

We don't actually know if everyone will turn into near-immortal Ancients when Unsundered. (Ancients are definitely not immortal, but they certainly lived much longer than we do.) The Convocation wanted to sacrifice the "new life" that rose upon the planet after the apocalypse, so there are presumably "lesser" lives present that got Sundered as well. And judging from the short stories we've gotten, it's implied that some of the Amaurotines (certainly many on the Convocation) see other people as "lesser".

We're also told (via out-of-game dev interview answers) that everyone on every shard is a Sundered Ancient soul. So that means this "new life" counts as Ancient souls. And presumably Alpha's new soul as of the end of the Omega questline counts as a sundered Ancient soul as well? I don't even know.

So my point is that we have no guarantee all the souls will turn into full-powered godlike Ancient souls upon being Unsundered. There must be at least some "lesser" souls, which the Convocation was planning to sacrifice.

I think what you've misinterpreted here is the disdain Ascians have for people are the fact they have fragmented souls, not some misplaced xenophobia. The people that are "lesser" now are incomplete souls to them and that's what makes them undesirable. I think before the sundering everyone was an Ancient and the only lesser beings where their creations which have become today's monsters.

To take this one step further, I believe that 12 gods of Eorzea are the 12 followers of Venat who helped summon Hydaelyn (you can count the twelve Ancients in the room with Venat after the Anamnesis Andyer dungeon). And they are the ones responsible for repopulating the star after Hydaelyn sundered it--most likely the only ones left after sacrificing everyone else who would follow Hydaelyn--to specifically be stewards for the shard. Either they created the races that exist today or they are the actual Adam and Eves of the races that exist today. Thus giving them the history and reverence through out the history of the star. So imagine an Ascian looking at these fractured beings taking the legacy of their culture, living cluelessly of their history, even though they are only 1/14 of their potential.

[MikkoAkure]

I think what you've misinterpreted here is the disdain Ascians have for people are the fact they have fragmented souls, not some misplaced xenophobia. The people that are "lesser" now are incomplete souls to them and that's what makes them undesirable. I think before the sundering everyone was an Ancient and the only lesser beings where their creations which have become today's monsters.

To take this one step further, I believe that 12 gods of Eorzea are the 12 followers of Venat who helped summon Hydaelyn (you can count the twelve Ancients in the room with Venat after the Anamnesis Andyer dungeon). And they are the ones responsible for repopulating the star after Hydaelyn sundered it--most likely the only ones left after sacrificing everyone else who would follow Hydaelyn--to specifically be stewards for the shard. Either they created the races that exist today or they are the actual Adam and Eves of the races that exist today. Thus giving them the history and reverence through out the history of the star. So imagine an Ascian looking at these fractured beings taking the legacy of their culture, living cluelessly of their history, even though they are only 1/14 of their potential.

I don't think this is necessarily true. Azem was unaffiliated with the convocation during the split, and had nothing to do with the summoning of Hydaelyn either, yet they have at least 2 gods of the Source named after them. Also, they wandered the world outside of Amaurot helping the natives, which means that there were more than just the classic Amaurotians existing back then, and they needed help from those more powerful. In one case, Azem helped a village of farmers. I find it very unlikely that the villagers were also powerful creation mages.

[SannaR]

To add to what Mikko wrote the life Zodiark made after the Ancients sacrificed to him to get the planet popping out life again was atherically less dense than that of the Ancients. So, yes there's a suggestion that they might have been slightly racist. Going back to the whole volcano bit the other 14 had chosen not to save them until our past self was all hey I need to save the grapes is that everyone who had chosen to leave the island had already done so. And that those who still had chosen to stay must have made peace with their maker.

[Kesey]

I don't think this is necessarily true. Azem was unaffiliated with the convocation during the split, and had nothing to do with the summoning of Hydaelyn either, yet they have at least 2 gods of the Source named after them. Also, they wandered the world outside of Amaurot helping the natives, which means that there were more than just the classic Amaurotians existing back then, and they needed help from those more powerful. In one case, Azem helped a village of farmers. I find it very unlikely that the villagers were also powerful creation mages.

But the name Azem is a title in their society, not a specific name. We know that the past WOL (unless the coming patches have us meet with Venat who may provide more information) didn't align with the Hydaelyn faction. So we easily assume someone took over the role as "Azem" in the WOL's absence. I know its been stated the convocation didn't fill that seat (but those guys are now the Ascians) and I was specifically pointing out that the 12 with Venat are most likely are the 12 gods of Eoreza (you know the other fraction of Ancients). Since Azem is among them we can assume they had a position like this filled by someone else or the WOL eventualy joined their cause, or most likely is just a name associated with the sun and not the former position the WOL had.

Furthermore, the one case you use as an example clearly happens before the summoning of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, when the past WOL is still in the Convocation. The issue comes down to protecting grapes and their is no clear evidence these people did or did not have creation magic. I'd say yes, because they have summoned a primal, which at this point we need to call it what it is, creation magic.

[Seraphor]

I don't think this is necessarily true. Azem was unaffiliated with the convocation during the split, and had nothing to do with the summoning of Hydaelyn either, yet they have at least 2 gods of the Source named after them. Also, they wandered the world outside of Amaurot helping the natives, which means that there were more than just the classic Amaurotians existing back then, and they needed help from those more powerful. In one case, Azem helped a village of farmers. I find it very unlikely that the villagers were also powerful creation mages.

I still don't understand why this Azem = Azeyma thing seems to be regarded as hard canon. It's explicitly stated to not be confirmed.
Azem was a wanderer.
Azeyma is warden of the sun. She is the sister of Menphina who represents the moon.

Yes the Convocation each represented a constellation, but so did the Twelve and they're not the same things, so do AST cards and also the Lucavi. Everything in this game is a damn constellation.

Most likely, it's simply a name that was linked to the motif of the sun. Azem = Sun, and so as sun gods arose in mythology they gravitated to Az- names.
This doesn't contradict the twelve who summoned Hydaelyn as being inspirations of The Twelve, or that Azem was or was not one of those twelve.

[Kesey]

To add to what Mikko wrote the life Zodiark made after the Ancients sacrificed to him to get the planet popping out life again was atherically less dense than that of the Ancients. So, yes there's a suggestion that they might have been slightly racist. Going back to the whole volcano bit the other 14 had chosen not to save them until our past self was all hey I need to save the grapes is that everyone who had chosen to leave the island had already done so. And that those who still had chosen to stay must have made peace with their maker.

Aetherial density is only diminished after Hydaelyn splits all existence into 14 shards. This was NOT done by Zodiark. So once again there are no signs of racism in their society until their faction loses, Zodiark is sealed in the moon and everyone is only 1/14 what they used to be. And the story about the island is to show the WOL, even in the past, was always wiling to act even when others wouldn't have bothered.