Is it just me, or does ninja feel like...

[Equitable_Remedy]

...a lot of button mashing for very little DPS reward?

I can't speak to endgame DPS performance (I just got to 80 and am still doing the ShB MSQ), but I can say that ninja gameplay has been surprisingly rewarding—I say surprisingly because I almost always heal in MMOs (but decided to try something different with FF14).

At present (the first two ShB dungeons and the first trial), my damage has been quite good despite not having any experience with these fights. (Of course, I could just be tryharding more than others because I'm into it.) I've not played any other DPS classes in FF14, but I find the burst window nature of ninja to be pretty great—unload in a flurry of rapid beats and then have a lot of flexibility to do mechanics until the next burst window. I don't know how other classes play in terms of pacing, but I would not want to maintain the burst window tempo throughout the whole fight; the opener is fun, but it's a lot, haha!

I also don't feel a desperate need to be #1 DPS in every group that I'm in (though I top dps not infrequently thus far...), but that's probably my healer mentality talking.

[Whatzituyah]

I would say Dragoon feels worse in this regard except the DPS is amazing.

[Jirah]

i cant stand these misleading titles, ppl need to speak in complete sentences and stop with the ellipses

[Jim_Berry]

NIN is just highly active job that requires me to keep attacks going to keep damage sustained. Even if I have to break a combo to run from aoe and toss some daggers at my target is still rewarding in it's own right.

My ONLY issue with NIN, is when I'm in battle, and we keep wiping, NIN causes fatigue on me, and I'm ready to play something else. But if we're winning and winning, NIN keeps me excited each battle, even in farm parties.

[Jim_Berry]

I can't speak to endgame DPS performance (I just got to 80 and am still doing the ShB MSQ), but I can say that ninja gameplay has been surprisingly rewarding—I say surprisingly because I almost always heal in MMOs (but decided to try something different with FF14).

At present (the first two ShB dungeons and the first trial), my damage has been quite good despite not having any experience with these fights. (Of course, I could just be tryharding more than others because I'm into it.) I've not played any other DPS classes in FF14, but I find the burst window nature of ninja to be pretty great—unload in a flurry of rapid beats and then have a lot of flexibility to do mechanics until the next burst window. I don't know how other classes play in terms of pacing, but I would not want to maintain the burst window tempo throughout the whole fight; the opener is fun, but it's a lot, haha!

I also don't feel a desperate need to be #1 DPS in every group that I'm in (though I top dps not infrequently thus far...), but that's probably my healer mentality talking.

Funny thing about me, is that when I DO get top place as NIN when there's a DRG, MNK, or SAM there, it grants personal rewards, ESPECIALLY because I'm not dps-savvy (I mainly play tanks and healers).

[Raikai]

I'm recently getting into NIN and finding it quite fun to play. I can think about some suggestions that I personally have to improve the job. Some - might - be wrong, given my novice-ness to the job at lv80, but hopefully not!


1) Assassination locked behind Dream W. makes zero sense to me... I mean, it doesn't work in any faulty way but I just can't see the reason on why?

2) Kassatsu changing Doton to a Bad-Breath-esque ability with a stronger DoT than the regular Doton (without the need of the aoe) and a myriad of secondary debuffs in case you apply this just to trash mobs.

3) Buff Throwing Dagger's ninki generation to make it just a little bit more efficient while there's movement downtime;

4) What's the point of Shadow Fang being a DoT if you don't have to monitor that DoT to begin with? Since the recast time is higher than the duration of the debuff. They should remove the recast time and adjust damage accordingly. Heck, it can't even be copied by Bunshin, which would be a nice tactical use.

5) Was Bunshin always like this in previous patches? I look at it and see that just as a big DoT with a fancy packaging. There's not any actual interaction or creative use - you basically get 5 200 potency hits if all you do is melee. The whole "mirror image" fantasy lives to the idea of being just an illusion lol.

I would redesign Bunshin as simply a 15s buff (with zero ninki cost) that sends a clone to lock on the target of your choice and copy your actions. You and your clone deal 50% less damage, but benefit from separate critical chances. Shadowfang and Doton can be doubled and so does Trick Attack, but the effect won't stack on the same target - only useful with Bunshin when there's 2 separate targets as the clone locks in first at the target of your choice. You can cancel the buff if you need to make the clone disappear.

6) Smokescreen ability: 120s recast time. AoE that causes your party to be invulnerable to enemy auto-attacks for 5 seconds if they stand inside. Useful utility for dungeons mainly.

7) Trait that makes Fuma Shuriken extend Huton by 30s. It's not optimal to use, as it is a potency loss... but it's meant to help while you're running from AoE and your Huton is about to die. Also to give Fuma Shuriken any kind of use other than briefly appearing uring TCJ first hit.

[wereotter]

1) Assassination locked behind Dream W. makes zero sense to me... I mean, it doesn't work in any faulty way but Ijust can't see the reason on why?

Assassination was originally a move that could only be used with an enemy was at low HP, the removed all those kind of skills from the game and so Assassinate was removed along with them. It was later added back as an expansion capstone ability to add extra damage, but was easier to just use the same icon and animation rather than create a new one.

2) Kassatsu changing Doton to a Bad-Breath-esque ability with a stronger DoT than the regular Doton (without the need of the aoe) and a myriad of secondary debuffs in case you apply this just to trash mobs.

Kassatsu will have other uses later. It charges up your Raiton and Katon when you get the trait, and there's not much need for an extra benefit on Doton, especially since tanks don't tend to like to hold mobs in the DOT circle anyway (and as one of only two of that kind of move left in the game, I'm not sure Doton will be with us past the next expansion)

3) Buff Throwing Dagger's ninki generation to make it just a little bit more efficient while there's movement downtime;

This isn't terribly needed. Once you know a fight well enough, and because ninjutsu charges stack, you can plan to use ninjutsu when you have to disconnect. Throwing Dagger should be a last resort.

4) What's the point of Shadow Fang being a DoT if you don't have to monitor that DoT to begin with? Since the recast time is higher than the duration of the debuff. They should remove the recast time and adjust damage accordingly. Heck, it can't even be copied by Bunshin, which would be a nice tactical use.

Player skill check. Are you remembering to use it in Trick Attack or not? That's one of the several aspects of the job that knowing the job makes a difference on DPS. It's not a DOT like the DOTs other jobs have. Also there exist other jobs with DOTs like this. Both Paladin and Gunbreaker have similar moves where the recast timer is shorter than the duration.

5) Was Bunshin always like this in previous patches? I look at it and see that just as a big DoT with a fancy packaging. There's not any actual interaction or creative use - you basically get 5 200 potency hits if all you do is melee. The whole "mirror image" fantasy lives to the idea of being just an illusion lol.

I would redesign Bunshin as simply a 15s buff (with zero ninki cost) that sends a clone to lock on the target of your choice and copy your actions. You and your clone deal 50% less damage, but benefit from separate critical chances. Shadowfang and Doton can be doubled and so does Trick Attack, but the effect won't stack on the same target - only useful with Bunshin when there's 2 separate targets as the clone locks in first at the target of your choice. You can cancel the buff if you need to make the clone disappear.

Bunshin was reworked recently, so no. It's a much simpler skill than it was previously, and better for players with lower ping. The ninki cost of the skill is just another one of the little checks to make sure you're using it at the right time. Your clone gets that 5% bonus damage from trick attack. So it's actually 210 potency per move if you're using it properly.

6) Smokescreen ability: 120s recast time. AoE that causes your party to be invulnerable to enemy auto-attacks for 5 seconds if they stand inside. Useful utility for dungeons mainly.

No thanks. I don't want to be punished on damage because I provide such strong utility.

7) Trait that makes Fuma Shuriken extend Huton by 30s. It's not optimal to use, as it is a potency loss... but it's meant to help while you're running from AoE and your Huton is about to die. Also to give Fuma Shuriken any kind of use other than briefly appearing uring TCJ first hit.

Fuma was the primary ninjutsu used for five years due to it's benefit from the dagger poisons, slashing debuff, and lower chance to clip GCD. I'm not so sure it needs added utility. Keeping up Huton is already kind of a joke at how easy it is with Armor Crush. If you have to disengage from a targetable boss for so long you need to use Fuma to refresh, then that seems like a player issue rather than a needed to adjust the skill. If anything I'd give it more potency so that it's a viable option if you have a Brothhood or Embolden buff up since it's physical while Raiton is magical damage.

[oblivion238]

NIN is currently the best dps at the level 70 range. You are most likely playing it incorrectly if you are 4th on the dps list. As others have already mentioned you should go to the balance and read their guide there (NIN doesn't change much from 70-80).

[Raikai]

Assassination was originally a move that could only be used with an enemy was at low HP, the removed all those kind of skills from the game and so Assassinate was removed along with them. It was later added back as an expansion capstone ability to add extra damage, but was easier to just use the same icon and animation rather than create a new one.

Still, doesn't make any sense to make it tied to Dream Within a Dream... Seems just for the sake of it.

there's not much need for an extra benefit on Doton, especially since tanks don't tend to like to hold mobs in the DOT circle anyway (and as one of only two of that kind of move left in the game

That's the point of the "upgraded" version via Kassatsu. It would not be a land AoE, but a stronger poison DoT on everything.

[Seraphor]

Still, doesn't make any sense to make it tied to Dream Within a Dream... Seems just for the sake of it.


That's the point of the "upgraded" version via Kassatsu. It would not be a land AoE, but a stronger poison DoT on everything.

You get one Kassatsu every 60s, with a choice between two options. Single Target Hyosho Ranryu and AoE Goka Mekkyaku.

If this upgraded Doton is more potent than Goka Mekkyaku, then Goka becomes completely redudant.
If less potent, then the DoT is redundant.

Unlike regular Ninjutsu that has a 20s cd, with charges, where you can easily accommodate for both Doton and Katon.