SCH needs to be significantly buffed

[IDontPetLalas]

I honestly don't understand why you would want to make someone playing another class unhappy just because you didn't like how your class was managed. (1) it doesn't help anyone (2) it isn't like you didn't have options.

I don't see why you're getting so triggered, but it doesn't really add anything helpful.

[Veis_Alveare]

The idea that one or the other has to just shut up and accept that their job feels terrible to play, just because they were flavour of the month at some point, is ridiculous.

If it was as fleeting at being the flavor of the month, sure.

SCH has shined as the guaranteed healer more or less since there's been any choice involved, with WHM and AST squabbling over who gets to play second fiddle.

You point me out a significant length of time where the meta healing comp was WHM/AST.

[Mortex]

Funny how this turned into a debate between angry Scholars and bitter Whitemages when the issue was never, and still isn't, with SCH's viability. And maybe you should stop aiming at each other and instead look at who caused this mess in the first place?

SCH and WHM don't work well together because they're not good at covering for each other's weaknesses, but replace either of them with an Astro and both are completely fine in any kind of content.

Right now one simply feels terrible to play compared to it's previous iterations and the other finally got some improvements to it's gameplay.

Just like WHMs had every right to complain about their clunky job, and still do since it may have improved but not significantly, so do SCHs have every right to complain.


The idea that one or the other has to just shut up and accept that their job feels terrible to play, just because they were flavour of the month at some point, is ridiculous.

Yes but the problem again is astro being absolute busted as hell like again mid expansion. At this time it’s more or less a trend, astro sucking for 1 or 2 raid tier and then gets fukking buffed massively to kick whm and sch out of the race. Like at this point I assume it’s a running gag in the job balancing department same as that they don’t play test smn every expansion before hand enough so it’s busted for minimum 2 raid tiers.

[Absurdity]

Yes but the problem again is astro being absolute busted as hell like again mid expansion. At this time it’s more or less a trend, astro sucking for 1 or 2 raid tier and then gets fukking buffed massively to kick whm and sch out of the race. Like at this point I assume it’s a running gag in the job balancing department same as that they don’t play test smn every expansion before hand enough so it’s busted for minimum 2 raid tiers.

Yes but there is nobody but SE to blame for that, they can't even figure out what to do with healers in the first place so of course they have trouble balancing them as well.



In this case it's not even that AST is kicking one of the other healers out. Both SCH and WHM are still completely viable, just not when combined with each other.

There is no point to being at each other's throats over which healer is more busted. Scholar being good has no correlation to Whitemage being shit or vice versa...and neither is Astro.

[Veis_Alveare]

Yes but there is nobody but SE to blame for that, they can't even figure out what to do with healers in the first place so of course they have trouble balancing them as well.



In this case it's not even that AST is kicking one of the other healers out. Both SCH and WHM are still completely viable, just not when combined with each other.

There is no point to being at each other's throats over which healer is more busted. Scholar being good has no correlation to Whitemage being shit or vice versa...and neither is Astro.

It kind of does though?

What we see right now is an AST-centered comp versus the previous SCH-centered one. This is arguably always going to be the case where one healer is superior as long as we have more than two choices but it's made that much more noticable when it's a 1/3 since that more or less always leaves another 1/3 in the dust.

AST being wonderful doesn't make SCH any worse but it does make it look worse, kind of like standing next to a really pretty person in a picture. You might be a 6/10 but if they're a 10 you will look like a 3.

Relativity \o/

[Deceptus]

It kind of does though?

What we see right now is an AST-centered comp versus the previous SCH-centered one. This is arguably always going to be the case where one healer is superior as long as we have more than two choices but it's made that much more noticable when it's a 1/3 since that more or less always leaves another 1/3 in the dust.

AST being wonderful doesn't make SCH any worse but it does make it look worse, kind of like standing next to a really pretty person in a picture. You might be a 6/10 but if they're a 10 you will look like a 3.

Relativity \o/

We will always have these "one left out" situations when there are 3 healers. It was the same when there were 3 tanks. It simply becomes easier to say "my job is left out" when it's just your job but when there's more than just you that argument becomes weaker. See: MCH and RDM's. It's hard to feel sorry if a DPS is underperforming because there are 9 others to choose from.

It doesn't make it right, and underperforming jobs should absolutely be brought up.

[Semirhage]

Funny how this turned into a debate between angry Scholars and bitter Whitemages when the issue was never, and still isn't, with SCH's viability. And maybe you should stop aiming at each other and instead look at who caused this mess in the first place?

I get your point, but this thread *is* titled "SCH needs to be significantly buffed", and the OP isn't talking about addressing clunk. It's yet another "SCH deserves bigger numbers" thread.

I also disagree with the popular opinion that WHM received gameplay improvements in ShB. It still has all of its previous clunk, all of its previous kit gaps, and fewer damage options. Still more immobile than BLM, still awfully clippy, still next to zero utility (outside stapling Sacred Soil onto Divine Seal), still not significantly stronger at personal damage or healing despite this being advertised as their "identity". The only "improvement" was giving it a job gauge that wasn't so laughable that the best way to use it at all skill levels was to ignore it. Now you basically ignore it unless there's downtime or you're out of oGCDs. Or you're in a dungeon, because blowing them even on overhealing is a damage gain with trash packs. Which I personally think is jank as hell design, but then again I'm not playing it this expansion.

There is no point to being at each other's throats over which healer is more busted. Scholar being good has no correlation to Whitemage being shit or vice versa...and neither is Astro.

You're likely right, if only because I doubt Square Enix even reads the NA forums unless there's a truly huge backlash over something. Though it certainly feels that way, spending six years on this forum with Scholars telling me I'm not allowed utility or complexity at all because that's "Scholar's identity", as if Scholar design had a monopoly on class engagement. When your healing competition is both overpowered and joins Square Enix telling you that you're not allowed utility because We Said So, it gets tiring.

[Absurdity]

I get your point, but this thread *is* titled "SCH needs to be significantly buffed", and the OP isn't talking about addressing clunk. It's yet another "SCH deserves bigger numbers" thread.

And that's why this thread is pointless in the first place tbh. SCH doesn't have potency issues when played correctly, it just feels incredibly boring and clunky to play at times compared to it's previous versions.


As for improvements, I said "not significantly" on purpose. Rarely anyone talks about Temperance, raidwide damage reduction, and the buff to Asylum which increases all healing by 10% within the circle, two things whitemage was completely lacking in SB. I can see why though, they would've been rather useful in Stormblood but barely anything in ShB hits hard enough to actually require damage reduction and since all physical ranged have access to damage reduction as well it becomes rather redundant.

[Mortex]

Yes but there is nobody but SE to blame for that, they can't even figure out what to do with healers in the first place so of course they have trouble balancing them as well.



In this case it's not even that AST is kicking one of the other healers out. Both SCH and WHM are still completely viable, just not when combined with each other.

There is no point to being at each other's throats over which healer is more busted. Scholar being good has no correlation to Whitemage being shit or vice versa...and neither is Astro.

Or you know the balance team could use actual fight logs from healers playing and see why healers feel and play like dirt, it isn’t rocket science and having no dedicated healer player in the job balance and design team after 3 addons. And im not at anyone’s throat I just state that as long as they can’t balance for shit and anyone that plays the jobs for a already long time can mostly tell why these jobs feel clunky ( fairy ghosting, button bloat ,whm no weave, no utility and beginner healer mentality). And the worst whas people giving massive feedback when there were test builds for ShB showing already why it sucks and we said they did listen and we need to wait for the results, and we all know how that dumpster fire endet, with them taking Energy Drain away only too give it back not even halfway in the Addon.

[Semirhage]

As for improvements, I said "not significantly" on purpose. Rarely anyone talks about Temperance, raidwide damage reduction, and the buff to Asylum which increases all healing by 10% within the circle, two things whitemage was completely lacking in SB. I can see why though, they would've been rather useful in Stormblood but barely anything in ShB hits hard enough to actually require damage reduction and since all physical ranged have access to damage reduction as well it becomes rather redundant.

I'll say for Temperance something similar to what I said about lilies last expansion: lilies were a watered-down, single-use, highly restricted self target only version of Spear, widely considered the most worthless AST card of Heavensward. And lilies were worse even than that.

Temperance is a step up. It's a combo of a nerfed, worse version of Divine Seal, an ability we already had six years ago, and Sacred Soil, widely considered the most worthless Aetherflow ability before it got that busted regen attached to it. It's pretty wings, but I see it as yet more leftover scraps from abilities they already learned were crap in other design spaces, tossed over to WHM exactly when it becomes even more pointless than said mechanic has ever been.

I get riled up when people claim WHM is "better". For me it's like, no, don't communicate to Squeenix that this is acceptable. My personal demand is actual thoughtful design. Not this wimpy fake defensive utility that everyone and their mom has access to as role skills in an expansion that renders it pointless in a game that's only ever been about offense anyway.