Players should be allowed to smoke in game. Show your support!

[Penthea]

There are other ways of coping with stress that do not involve such negative side effects. Sadly, drinking/ingesting toxins instead of dealing with what you experienced has become socially acceptable.

People turning to consuming alcohol and other types of toxins is often indicative of other problems. It's very easy to say people should seek other ways to cope but for some people their choices are slim at best. Therapy can be super expensive and even if you can access it you could find yourself on a very long waiting list. If you're a minor it can be impossible to seek medical help without your parents being involved and if they're part of the problems you're experiencing...well yea, don't think I need to explain the difficulties with that.

Sure consuming certain things can be expensive too but the fact is therapy can be so expensive that it's more affordable to seek a destructive coping mechanism. It's also more immediate than a waiting list that can last for months or even years.

Anyway any coping mechanism that turns into addiction can have negative side effects. Even gaming. Anything done to excess has negative side effects. You don't need to ingest something to seek a destructive coping mechanism.

[Granyala]

Anyway any coping mechanism that turns into addiction can have negative side effects. Even gaming. Anything done to excess has negative side effects. You don't need to ingest something to seek a destructive coping mechanism.

Very true, which is why it is important that you recognize that you are not using [item] recreationally anymore but that it has become a coping mechanism.
Once you know that, you know to actually address the underlying problem instead of trying to hide from it.

I know it's tough, I know it sucks. In the long run, the hard choice is the better one.

Though this is not psychological debate. The actual topic was about an emote and personally, I am against anything (movie, advertisement, game etc) that depicts smoking or drinking as "cool" or "solution to help with a problem" etc. It sets a bad precedent in peoples minds.

Like, I shit you not SE already doesn't care.

Yep, you're right on that one. Only reason our char's can't do it liberally is probably tied to the rating stuff as other people said.

We're talking about smoking (however with you bringing that up) just because someone picks up a bottle of whiskey to drink doesn't mean their an alcoholic lol.

My initial response was to a person that depicted smoking as a coping mechanism. That entails regular use.
Use Alcohol in a regular fashion and you will become an alcoholic. It happens way faster than most people are willing to admit.

Okay? Still off topic by bringing up alcoholism; smoking coping doesn't = alcohol coping.

Both are toxic substances that harm your health and the health of people around you. I do not see the distinction.

[Penthea]

Though this is not psychological debate. The actual topic was about an emote and personally, I am against anything (movie, advertisement, game etc) that depicts smoking or drinking as "cool" or "solution to help with a problem" etc. It sets a bad precedent in peoples minds.

Personally I don't view the addition of alcohol or smoking in games to be automatically presenting those things as cool. They're usually used for character building.

Depending on the alcohol someone drinks it can show what class of people they belong to. For example expensive alcohol can indicate wealth. Bootleg alcohol can indicate the person isn't entirely opposed to law breaking. Constantly drinking strong spirits can indicate the person has some personal issues. Same with smoking. Cigars are often very expensive. Pre-rolled cigarettes cost a lot more than those you roll yourself. A pipe can show a person is old fashioned or belongs to a high class in society depending on its style. Someone who smokes even in places where it's not appropriate can indicate the person cares little for social expectations or is even reckless.

Additionally there is nothing stopping a dev or character creator team from showing negative effects from vices like smoking or drinking. For more character building a person who smokes could have a nasty cough, or a person who drinks could be shown to get nausea if they do it too much. They can even show characters getting irritable if they don't get their fix. Just because said vices are in a game doesn't mean they are making it look glamorous or cool. It's all about how the presentation is done.

Look at Gerolt, an alcoholic blacksmith who is endlessly in debt. His drinking strongly suggests it is at least partially responsible for his finances. He is also frequently criticised for his drinking and it is said more than a few times he would be better at his work if he had control of it. Certainly the npcs that interact with him don't make his addiction appear cool or even acceptable behaviour.

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

[SannaR]

Look at Gerolt, an alcoholic blacksmith who is endlessly in debt. His drinking strongly suggests it is at least partially responsible for his finances. He is also frequently criticised for his drinking and it is said more than a few times he would be better at his work if he had control of it. Certainly the npcs that interact with him don't make his addiction appear cool or even acceptable behaviour.

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

Gerolt isn't even the only drunk the WoL comes across the guy in charge of the inn right outside of Quarymill has you go throw buckets of water at some drunks. The blacksmiths guildmaster only stops drinking because of your skills as a smith.

[Granyala]

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

All good points, I seriously doubt that the emote is intended for that though.
People think smoking looks cool, that' why they want the emote.
I doubt many here will RP to the extent that they depict the negative side effects of being addicted to nicotine.

Also, you're going on about long term solutions to stop stressors. Those are hard and more importantly take a lot of time. Smoking and alcohol consumption are immediate by comparison, and there are certain stressors in life that no amount of therapy will make right as well.

I just don't get how drinking a toxin helps in dealing with stress. Humans are weird creatures indeed. *shrugs*
Best to leave it at that.

I will only accept a pipe emote, if I can make a whole sailing vessel. Anything else will not fly. :<

[Vyrerus]

I just don't get how drinking a toxin helps in dealing with stress. Humans are weird creatures indeed. *shrugs*
Best to leave it at that.

They affect the chemical balance in the brain, causing immediate releases of serotonin and dopamine. Alcohol in particular also causes humans to release more Gamma Aminobutyric Acid(GABA for short), which is what causes people to lower inhibition while simultaneously causing motor function impairment/slurred speech etc.

Smoking doesn't cause serotonin release, just dopamine and adrenaline. So you get a feel good spike and become more energetic. Tobacco/Nicotine itself actually increases dopamine levels too, which is what makes it physically addictive.

[Granyala]

They affect the chemical balance in the brain, causing immediate releases of serotonin and dopamine. Alcohol in particular also causes humans to release more Gamma Aminobutyric Acid(GABA for short), which is what causes people to lower inhibition while simultaneously causing motor function impairment/slurred speech etc.

Smoking doesn't cause serotonin release, just dopamine and adrenaline. So you get a feel good spike and become more energetic. Tobacco/Nicotine itself actually increases dopamine levels too, which is what makes it physically addictive.

I am aware of the chemical interactions but that "high" fades after a few hours and, depending on the amount you drank, you get an appropriate "low". Not sure about nicotine in that regard, iirc you just need more to achieve the same high since the brain gets used to the increased neurotransmitter levels.
Basically you pay for a brief moment of happiness with another moment of unhappiness which just adds to the stress and unhappiness you were feeling before.

But somehow people think this whole shabang is a net gain... THAT's what I do not understand.
To me it looks like a zero sum game in the best of circumstances (if you are ontop of it, don't get addicted and use it sparingly enough to avoid health issues) and a net loss in most cases when people lose control.

Meanwhile Western games do nothing but promote drugs, violence against everything that moves, sexualization, hate, abusing, bullying, alcohol - all of these things and more.

Aah so that's why the WoL basically solves every problem by engaging the games combat mechanics (a.k.a.: violence).
FF-XIV is a western game in disguise!

As for sexualization: Shisui gear would like to have a word with you.

[Vyrerus]

I am aware of the chemical interactions but that "high" fades after a few hours

As far as drinking goes, alcohol's effect on the body is a depressant after too much of it. The key to pure enjoyment, imo, is to stop before you start feeling down and drink some water. I'm sure it differs person to person, but as long as I don't start drinking while in a sour mood, then here's no downside except for the excess calories that I gotta try to burn off to stay somewhat fit. I don't drink on work days or nights, and try to limit it to special occasion. I still drink more than I should, but I can certainly do without. I think most people accept the downsides with the attitude of, "Whatever, I may hate myself in the morning, but it's not that bad." My greatest vices are probably caffeine and porn.

As far as smoking goes... I honestly wouldn't know. I've only experienced nicotine high a few times, and it was great, but not enough to offset the terrible taste of cigarettes. Cigars slightly more bearable, but meh. Never had the inclination to try an old timey pipe, but I hear it's the best. I never got addicted, and I don't really have the budget to smoke anyway. Just in some very high stress times, I bummed a few smokes from a friend, and chilled out enough feeling happy from it and their company to go to sleep later.

My arguments in his thread are pretty much just in agreement with wanting to have the option for expression.