FFXIV The Ultimate job

[TeraTyrantShadic]

I rather not have a mimic-type of class of any kind (Blue Mage is fine since it bring in monster abilities rather than a copy of other jobs moves). Since we're talking about onion knight I might as well give in my points as well. If you literally allow it to copy every single moves and traits from every job in FFXIV it'll be far more stronger than a Blue Mage(Granted it still can't one shot bosses with Level 5 death or the flat damages since they resist it) and it'll outclass every single job. At that point the idea of using Limited Job for onion knight is allowed (even though I am very much against the idea), but it is still way too broken even for a limited job.

You can't just keep using Limited Job just to justify adding it in, this is an MMO if they allow Onion Knight as a Limited Job with your ideas whose to say they won't abuse it for FATEs or any other content outside its own exclusive content. This is an MMO first and foremost, doing a single player game play in an MMO only works if its an solo instance duty like MSQ, Deep Dungeon, Eureka (Still has FATEs but is called NMs and people can easily solo with the right gear setup like a Eureka Gear set with Eureka Bonus and in later eureka with the right eureka actions), Bozja (Critical Engagements but again there is a group of people in there as well still soloable with the right Lost actions), and its own Masked Carnival. However it is still an MMO remember Blue Mage at Level 50 wasn't meant for group participation until 5.15 where it got Blue Mage Log and Achievements related to participating content as a group. Also let's not forget that Bahamut, Alexander, Trials, The final bosses of every dungeon is immune to flat damage and instant kill damage what makes you think they will allow Onion Knight in especially if they can copy every trait and every abilities. Not just that but you forgot a crucial thing, Job Gauges. Most of the jobs now have job gauges and moves locked behind it if we allow Onion Knight to say take Foul from a Black Mage it'll be spammable without any cost if we ignore job gauges. Allowing onion knight to change it's own job gauges every time? I highly doubt they have the coding to allow them to do such a thing with over 17 different job gauges for just 1 job.

Overall I think its better we leave Onion Knight out of FFXIV, it is fine if it was in a single player game since you earned the right to be god like and no one is there it suffer from your actions. While in an MMO it can be broken with the way you described it and wanted implemented. A 'I Win' button/job is the last thing we need in an MMO, no MMOs have this sort of 'I Win' button. I mean there is achievements saying you have gotten all jobs to its max current cap. Even in other MMOs when you max a class/job/spec you don't get to instantly kill a boss just so you can reap the rewards (If it was ESO or SWTOR that would be a different story because they have considered Solo instances and no you still cannot one shot a boss). Also we shouldn't rely on Limited Jobs making new jobs look at some of the post we are literally using it as a crutch to say we should have it in FFXIV because Limited Job allows it. No it doesn't, I already explained it before and it contradicts to Yoshida's/Dev Team's initial statement/reasoning for having limited jobs. Stop posting job ideas with Limited Jobs in it and just post it as a normal job work with what we have got the ways to balance a job in the game is limitless even with a job gauge system. Freedom of Creativity is only locked behind your ability to imagining it and not by some arbitrary system. If a few people can come up with a Job Gauge for Blue Mage to make it fit in as a Normal Job, why hasn't Limited Job shown that creativity. It is because it doesn't show creativity and does the very opposite of it.

[File2ish]

The thing about ff3 is you had to be job level 99, not level 99 to get the stat boost, and job levels as a system were designed in such a way that you could hit job level 99 in the first town in about an hour.

Honestly i think the "late bloomer" is what onion knight is most famous for in the series, so i still disagree with it not being known to be powerful

Manipulating the game system for job leveling is easy. Sure, in about an hour someone can grind it up to max job level, no argument there. And purely at max job level it has the best stats and everything. But again; for the vast majority of players who might play the game will not exploit that system or even know Onion Knight's stats, it is weak.

Per numbers OK has the best stats at 99. Also, per numbers, it has the lowest stats from 1 to like 90+. For 90% of the game, assuming you aren't exploiting the job level system, OK is comparatively useless compared to the other jobs in the game. The job cannot only be gauged by it's max level stats, as you don't need to get any job to max job level or any character to max level to beat the game. OK is objectively the best at job level cap, but otherwise it is easily outclassed. And, in a normal run of the game, it is objectively the worst class.

Which makes OK known for being powerful in the end, but is weak the vast majority of the time. I'm just saying I both agree and disagree with it being powerful :P Like I said before, just to play devil's advocate.

[Rayo]

Wasn't their a similar Limited Job proposal in the "Other Battle Systems" forum section? I recall one being made their that actually had a fairly balanced idea for an Onion Knight/Freelancer/Mime Limited Job.

Edit: Found it. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-Job-Proposal

[ADVSS]

Manipulating the game system for job leveling is easy. Sure, in about an hour someone can grind it up to max job level, no argument there. And purely at max job level it has the best stats and everything. But again; for the vast majority of players who might play the game will not exploit that system or even know Onion Knight's stats, it is weak.

Per numbers OK has the best stats at 99. Also, per numbers, it has the lowest stats from 1 to like 90+. For 90% of the game, assuming you aren't exploiting the job level system, OK is comparatively useless compared to the other jobs in the game. The job cannot only be gauged by it's max level stats, as you don't need to get any job to max job level or any character to max level to beat the game. OK is objectively the best at job level cap, but otherwise it is easily outclassed. And, in a normal run of the game, it is objectively the worst class.

Which makes OK known for being powerful in the end, but is weak the vast majority of the time. I'm just saying I both agree and disagree with it being powerful :P Like I said before, just to play devil's advocate.

I agree. You both are right. My experience on the game, was that i never initially knew about Onion Knight till looking up info on FAQ's beyond that i never gave it a thought, as i stated it was more of an easter egg than anything. Players just playing the game would most likely never have known that fact.

[Vyrerus]

This is actually a really cool idea. Though I feel like the job gauge thing would cause it to be unfeasible, somewhat, unless they had Onion Knight go back to the pre-job gauge times, where job related buffs were just normal buffs on the buff list.

God, imagine mixing Requiescat with dual cast and spells that are more powerful than what PLD has to offer. Imagine giving yourself Greased Lightning III, Shifu, and Huton. 40% attack speed reduction lmao. Of course, one inset limitation would be that, you'd need associated combo skills for buffs gained via combo, and any downsides that come with jobs in their current form would apply to Onion Knight.

So if we give it Mudras for Huton and the Ninjutsu action, that's 4 actions right there. 16 left. Give Hakaze and Shifu, might as well give it Kasha, that's 13 actions left. To get to Greased Lightning III, we need to be able to build Greased Lightning, so we need at a minimum, Bootshine/DK > Twin Snakes > Demo/Snap. Then probably want Form Shift to be able to maintain it. That's 4 actions right there, and if we make two of them Twin Snakes/Demolish, that's two more things to maintain at all times. We're down to 9 actions now. Say we wanted the full advantage of Ninja's Huton, the ability to maintain it without Ninjutsu uses, so we want the Armor Crush combo. We now also need Spinning Edge, Gust Slash, and Armor Crush. Boom down to 6 actions.

We're likely going to want some sort of survivability, and since we can have anything... might as well get Benediction and Hallowed Ground. 4 actions left. How about, No Mercy, Blood for Blood(I refuse to call it Lance Charge), Fight or Flight, and Inner Release? We may not have Fell Cleave, but being able to auto direct crit the next 6~7 GCDs and oughta do something.

Of course, this setup has almost no oGCDs, no AOE, and no ranged attack options outside of Ninjutsu so... it's kinda meh, but I mean, it sounds good!

Honestly, this reminds me of setting up Marauder with Cross Class skills back in ARR. It felt like you could have it all, but maintaining all the possible good buffs got to be a bit chorey, and it was more buffs than it was attacks haha.