FFXIV The Ultimate job

[Veis_Alveare]

I understand hardcore players enjoyed doing Savage on Blue Mage, but you're also leaving many casual players in the dust. If Onion Knight requires Savage to fully enjoy that would be a travesty.

If you want to fully enjoy the game you should learn how to play it eventually.

[MagicAura]

Hello!

Welcome to FFXIV, welcome to the Final Fantasy series, and welcome to RPG’s!

<snipped>

Happy gaming new comer!

You assume too much, without knowing anything about me. I will also ignore your highly patronising (or mayhap I should say patronising mixed with a healthy dose of sarcasm) way of responding, as well as your misguided attempts to teach me basic English.

I have seen your other posts and to me it seems that you want FFXIV to be a different game, one that would suit your tastes and wants. You present your opinions as facts, again and again, often disparaging the game in its current form. Again and again you complain and you disparage. I never bothered replying to complaints because that's a waste of energy. Given that this post wasn't a complaint, I gave you my opinion on what you propose.

There is a reason why we don't have one massive job doing everything possible. It's called balance and with what you propose, after a while you'll command all possible actions, you'll be able to mix and match, put together the winning combo, and presto, an "I win button". No I am not saying you want to press a button and do the job, I'm using it in a metaphorical way.

I get it, you aren't happy with the jobs, you think they are boring, you probably want to show the designers how it's done. I also know you'd love for this game to be something else. That's fair enough, it's your opinion and you are free to have it. I will remind you however, that your opinions are not facts.

Some of us are enjoying the game as it is. The jobs as they are. Personally I accept the decisions the designers of the game make and adapt. Yes there is homogenisation but that is something one either accepts and adapts or rejects and moves on. You love to be in the middle and... complain. Good for you, you do you.

I won't bother with further discourse with you, as I prefer to speak to people who don't look down on me. When you grow up and learn to discuss as an adult, I may reconsider this decision. Until then, you do you.

[ReiMakoto]

Hello!

Welcome to FFXIV, welcome to the Final Fantasy series, and welcome to RPG’s!

When you say “I win” I think you might consider something such as Blue Mage being able to cast the death spell at a 100% success rate. This has never been the case in a Final Fantasy game. So sorry this will not be happening.

In regards to FFXIV, FFXIV is not a hard game. FFXIV relies on memory and memory only. FFXIV employs what is called “scripted” battles for their difficult content known as “savage” and “ultimate” fights. This means the player must know a fight to clear it. There are many 1 shot mechanics.


Onion Knight is a traditional Final Fantasy Job. It’s actually very well known and has traits in the series of much what I proposed!

Onion Knights are not known to be very powerful. What they do excel at is customization! They can use every weapon, and every action from other jobs. (Differing respective to its specific Final Fantasy.)

In the world of RPG’s players can normally customize their characters, stats, and equipment. FFXIV lacks this aspect, after deleting their systems known as “Point Allotments” and “cross class actions”

As for “incentive.” You misunderstand the use of the word. A want, or desire is not incentive. Incentive is motivation. FFXIV has homogenized each job since their conception in version 1.0 (and their re-conception in version 2.0.) The word homogenization means they are all mostly similar, especially the tanks and healers jobs.

All the jobs only deal damage. In a good RPG, especially Final Fantasy, stats, jobs, equipment and currencies have value. The player has to think and consider game factors to make choices to take on the most difficult challenges. FFXIV only employs item level. Onion Knight would introduce new challenges that require more than just item level, similar to Blue Mage.

So I strongly disagree with your assessment that the job is a easy press and win button. Going further, it would have the most character of any job as it would require thought and creativity. Not just “slap on bigger number gear” like the other homogenized jobs!

Happy gaming new comer!

"Onion Knights are not know to be very powerful"
Gonna stop you right there, in ff3, their debut game (and the only mainline game where they are a job) they literally have max in every stat at level 99, can equip literally any weapon and armour, and learn black and white magic.
In FFT, the other game where OK was actually a proper job, it is the most powerful job if you master every other job.

Not known to be very powerful is objectevely not true.

[File2ish]

"Onion Knights are not know to be very powerful"
Gonna stop you right there, in ff3, their debut game (and the only mainline game where they are a job) they literally have max in every stat at level 99, can equip literally any weapon and armour, and learn black and white magic.
In FFT, the other game where OK was actually a proper job, it is the most powerful job if you master every other job.

Not known to be very powerful is objectevely not true.

Just to play devil's advocate;

Onion Knight is objectively not a very powerful job for the majority of both listed games. In FF3 they are objectively not powerful until you reach level 90+ with the job if I recall. And, as you stated, in FFT:WotL (OK wasn't in the original PSX game if I recall) it is the most powerful job if you get all the other jobs to mastery.

Otherwise, it is objectively the weakest job in both games unless you work hard to make it the best. And even then, because of these prerequisites to have the job be good in either game; the job is essentially useless unless you do an ungodly amount of grinding in the early game. So, for the majority of people playing either game, the job is weak and useless.

Just like the Est archetype characters in Fire Emblem, it can be fun to make the weak one into the super powerful one, but most probably see the effort as not being worth it in the long run.

[Shougun]

I like the idea of Onion Knight in so much that I think it makes a proper concept of a limited job, like.. no reason would I ever expect it to be normal and it might do something silly but it does it in it's own little corner so .. 'whatever'.

I also feel like Onion Knight has the opportunity to be a half decent social job, as you could glamour whatever you wanted onto it (any weapons or armors). I've seen a few people also suggest some systems to make building your Onion Knight a semi-thoughtful experience, which is neat.

I don't mind the "I win" button concept to be honest, so long as it exists in old content that isn't really played anymore. At the point that it is content that is annoying to get a group for, I feel I win is a nice concept- bad concept for a normal job or for 'current' content though. Of course only using I win in so much that it means something OP, if it is done in literally one button that's rather lame. It'd ideally take some gameplay too lol. Which if you simply let people slot whatever into whatever.. would probably be pretty bad and simple. If it's just literally pick some skills that don't click in anyway because there wasn't an underbelly made, probably going to be pretty bad until it's pretty OP. Like if players just stacked some of the most spammable ogcd nonsense and all the anti-tank busters.

People might reference Beastmaster or Blue or other jobs as candidates for limited but in those situations I just feel sad if someone who had dreamed to main it couldn't, like myself for blue or I see some people scared for Beastmaster. However I do think you could have fun with the idea of limited + normal as a way to express the job in multiple ways (which we could call an 'advanced job' instead of limited). Like for example in WoW hunters have a big pet collection gameplay but when they use them they're balanced into archetypes rather than something too unique and unbalance-able, in a similar vein you might say beastmaster limited has a lot of customization but when you train your pet for 'normal' content they're given a more specific loadout that SE has determined to be fair. Or perhaps Beastmaster comes with a DoL sort of Shepherd mechanic as the limited and the normal is the pets, whatever, there's a lot of ways you could do this.

For jobs that one could feasibly imagine to be normal, and or advanced job, I'm not in love with the limited idea, but for jobs that are just like ...'lol.. okey...' like Mimic or Onion Knight or some new idea like Magitek Operator it sounds fine to me.

Just to play devil's advocate;

Onion Knight is objectively not a very powerful job for the majority of both listed games. In FF3 they are objectively not powerful until you reach level 90+ with the job if I recall. And, as you stated, in FFT:WotL (OK wasn't in the original PSX game if I recall) it is the most powerful job if you get all the other jobs to mastery.

Otherwise, it is objectively the weakest job in both games unless you work hard to make it the best. And even then, because of these prerequisites to have the job be good in either game; the job is essentially useless unless you do an ungodly amount of grinding in the early game. So, for the majority of people playing either game, the job is weak and useless.

Just like the Est archetype characters in Fire Emblem, it can be fun to make the weak one into the super powerful one, but most probably see the effort as not being worth it in the long run.

Having hardly paid attention to Onion Knight in the series, lol, I was always under the impression it was a joke beginner job that they decided to give the meme of being mega weak until suddenly it's not. Like Onion Knight can use everything and just kind of bad.... and then *angel sounds* the turd polishes into Innocence. Not attempting to dispute anything, just add how he appeared to me as someone who waved at him while running by to use more normal jobs lol.

[ADVSS]

Having hardly paid attention to Onion Knight in the series, lol, I was always under the impression it was a joke beginner job that they decided to give the meme of being mega weak until suddenly it's not. Like Onion Knight can use everything and just kind of bad.... and then *angel sounds* the turd polishes into Innocence. Not attempting to dispute anything, just add how he appeared to me as someone who waved at him while running by to use more normal jobs lol.

Nah thats exactly what onion knight was. It even had the best weapons and armor, but if you werent levelling to 99 it didnt matter because its stats were crap until the rediculous hidden jump those last 9 levels. It was basically and easter egg, that you didnt really need to beat the game. Similar to having the luck to get a single pink tail in FF4 for the most broken defensive armor ever to exist.

This in theory wouldnt be something id have an issue with, then i remembered jump potions exist. So there goes the achievement of actually earning your onion knight at max capacity already. I still would like to see it for a special pvp mode, only because its the only way ill ever do pvp again.

[ReiMakoto]

Just to play devil's advocate;

Onion Knight is objectively not a very powerful job for the majority of both listed games. In FF3 they are objectively not powerful until you reach level 90+ with the job if I recall. And, as you stated, in FFT:WotL (OK wasn't in the original PSX game if I recall) it is the most powerful job if you get all the other jobs to mastery.

Otherwise, it is objectively the weakest job in both games unless you work hard to make it the best. And even then, because of these prerequisites to have the job be good in either game; the job is essentially useless unless you do an ungodly amount of grinding in the early game. So, for the majority of people playing either game, the job is weak and useless.

Just like the Est archetype characters in Fire Emblem, it can be fun to make the weak one into the super powerful one, but most probably see the effort as not being worth it in the long run.

The thing about ff3 is you had to be job level 99, not level 99 to get the stat boost, and job levels as a system were designed in such a way that you could hit job level 99 in the first town in about an hour.

Honestly i think the "late bloomer" is what onion knight is most famous for in the series, so i still disagree with it not being known to be powerful

[ADVSS]

The thing about ff3 is you had to be job level 99, not level 99 to get the stat boost, and job levels as a system were designed in such a way that you could hit job level 99 in the first town in about an hour.

Honestly i think the "late bloomer" is what onion knight is most famous for in the series, so i still disagree with it not being known to be powerful

That is really gross. Job level 99? Id rather go 2xninja 2xsage

[ReiMakoto]

That is really gross. Job level 99? Id rather go 2xninja 2xsage

I mean late game that works (bards and scholars were my jam in 3), but considering how early you can get onion knight, how how job levels are very low effort to get (guard 6 times attack, ding repeat) you can have a 99 stat monster before you even leave the floating continent.

[Seraphor]

I posted a similar concept in the jobs forums, linked in my sig if you're curious.
Using a selection of skills from other jobs, but tailored to work together, so that it could be balanced similar to BLU.