Please make Blue Mage a normal job

[MaraD_]

Im calling it

i do feel BLU will one day be a normal job. But only as a means to a shortcut, so they dont have to make new jobs.
As for the "Starts at Lv70" bit, you forget newer players will still be getting BLU at Lv1. and BLU levels up to max in a day.
the real argument of "its Lv70" would be that they need to make 10 levels worth of content for BLU, and there should be enough time to make the last 10 levels worth of content, plus another 10 levels worth of content (for the expansions release) in time. Is there enough time for 20 levels? Personally Id say yes, but then again, SE hasnt really been able to roll out content like in the old days...

[Auryan]

I’m calling it now. I don’t care if I’m wrong later. They pushing BLU to 70 now. Next expansion the new jobs will start at 70 including the BLU job which will be a normal job. I’m calling it.

One problem with that though: that's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where. They would've said so back in 2018 when they introduced BLU. Which they didn't.

They also haven't even given a single indication that they were considering such a thing since they first released BLU.

It's kind of nuts to think they would 180 their own design philosophy for a job (or anything, really).

[TeraTyrantShadic]

i do feel BLU will one day be a normal job. But only as a means to a shortcut, so they dont have to make new jobs.
As for the "Starts at Lv70" bit, you forget newer players will still be getting BLU at Lv1. and BLU levels up to max in a day.
the real argument of "its Lv70" would be that they need to make 10 levels worth of content for BLU, and there should be enough time to make the last 10 levels worth of content, plus another 10 levels worth of content (for the expansions release) in time. Is there enough time for 20 levels? Personally Id say yes, but then again, SE hasnt really been able to roll out content like in the old days...

I highly doubt that would be the case, especially when the entire franchise is about Story, Jobs/Classes and combat. When you are making an MMO there is no shortcuts and it is a very expensive dedicated project that will continuously get updated. So the wise decision to keep FFXIV alive would be the story, the jobs it presents allowing players to experience the game in different perspectives and trying to make combat more interesting (Which is kind of hard considering most of the battles are mechanic heavy). Blue Mage isn't the end of all new jobs being added. Plenty of other jobs can still be added even after Blue Mage

Honestly... There is a possibility that there is enough time. Unlike last time where it was released at 4.5 (The near end of the patch) resulting them having the lack of time to complete it by the 5.0 expansion. This time however 5.4 is where they have one more patch before moving on to the next expansion. They have until next year May/June/July (Or delay with covid August/September/October) for the next expansion means they have more than just 3 months (6 at most without covid interfering and starting from December or January) to flesh it out as a normal job. Which I believe is more than sufficient to slowly let it into the normal job spectrum. As they only need to work on 20 levels worth of spell from Shadowbringers and the new expansion. Plus we had delays of some of the content with Covid but that didn't put them off and they did try their best to work while in Covid lock down in Japan. I am also going to assume there is no recent lock down in japan and should be returning to normal, if not then be prepared for delays. However it also relies on 5.4 as to what they added if they added more spells and a job gauge then they are starting to fully flesh it out. If not well we keep hoping for it to be a normal job in 6.0, or they could be planning a surprise.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

One problem with that though: that's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where. They would've said so back in 2018 when they introduced BLU. Which they didn't.

They also haven't even given a single indication that they were considering such a thing since they first released BLU.

It's kind of nuts to think they would 180 their own design philosophy for a job (or anything, really).

There is no indication, but neither do you know their inner working or behind the scenes. Stop pretending you do know a mind of a developer. It is clear with what you have posted you have literally have no idea what goes behind every developer team. I have 0 idea of their inner workings as well. Sometimes game developers do a 180 in their game design, which can happen sometimes to change the direction of the game. As of now we can only speculate and present evidence with what we only have, nothing more and nothing else.

With Blue Mage the indication is more subtle than outright from the words of the developers. They made content to be more group focused with learning a spell from dungeons changing it from chances to a guaranteed learn when you party up with ANY composition. Not just that but Blue Mage Log is another example of group play but more towards the fact as a BLU only parties alongside with the achievements. New spells from the 5.15 update also have given us more spells to play with and what comes with it is group based pseudo-role and group based spells like Avail, Cactgaurd, Angel Whisper and a few others that can be used in both solo and group situations. There is no indication that is true. However considering with what we have been given in 5.15 and how much they tried to make Blue Mage participate in group content it is much more looking towards becoming into a real job that can be the first job to Multi role. I mean on another thread I have said what they are doing in 5.15 just literally contradicted what they said Limited Job was meant to do. Limited Job has to go, if their actions are contradicting with a 1 or 2 year old statement something has definitely change.

[Auryan]

There is no indication, but neither do you know their inner working or behind the scenes. Stop pretending you do know a mind of a developer. It is clear with what you have posted you have literally have no idea what goes behind every developer team. I have 0 idea of their inner workings as well. Sometimes game developers do a 180 in their game design, which can happen sometimes to change the direction of the game. As of now we can only speculate and present evidence with what we only have, nothing more and nothing else.

I know you have a massive chip on your shoulders when it comes to BLU, but please pretend to be honest when trying to summarize my opinion.

I didn't claim to know the inner workings of the developers. I accurately described their general work ethic and showed precedence in the way they create content. That they never make big changes out of the BLU. That they are quite transparent and predictable with their announcements. And when handling critique they will openly address their preceived problems and act accordingly.

But of course pure conjecture and rejection of past behavior is just as likely as my grounded view.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

I know you have a massive chip on your shoulders when it comes to BLU, but please pretend to be honest when trying to summarize my opinion.

I didn't claim to know the inner workings of the developers. I accurately described their general work ethic and showed precedence in the way they create content. That they never make big changes out of the BLU. That they are quite transparent and predictable with their announcements. And when handling critique they will openly address their preceived problems and act accordingly.

But of course pure conjecture and rejection of past behavior is just as likely as my grounded view.

"One problem with that though: that's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where." - Auryan Post#362

I am not going to pretend at being honest, I am being honest (Brutally) when it comes to a topics discussing behind the scenes. The sentence you set in Post#362 says it all, "That's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where.". It is plain and out in the open to interpretation, but it is painfully obvious that the sentence implies that you think you know this is how FFXIV's developers operate. It is just as the same as claiming to know the inner workings. While you didn't directly said you claim to know, the sentence you have posted have implied so.

Yet you pursue to believe you can accurately describe their work ethics. You are not claiming, but you heavily implied you think you know their inner workings which is just as much as claiming to know behind the scenes. Make no mistake it is a bold sentence you have made and an unfounded one at that. I'll say it again neither you, me or anyone for that matter know what is going on behind the scenes of the FFXIV development team or their general work ethics. Every company has different work ethics depending on the laws of the state and nation. I know you want to make it clear that you are not claiming to know behind the scenes, then in future posts I'd suggest you refrain that thought or add in a bit of a disclaimer to prevent such confusion happening again. I don't have a 'Chip' on you, as I am often found in threads regarding Limited Jobs and Blue Mage. Make no mistake we both have different perspective and I don't take it personally. I am just simply correcting you in some of your statements.

With their announcement in their recent Live Letter they announced something big planned for Blue Mage. Will it be changes? We don't know until we see the Live Letter for 5.4. Predictable announcements? Definitely. Transparent? That is a 50/50, sometimes they are sometimes they are not, I mean in the grand scheme of things who is to say they are planning something much bigger behind the scenes. As for handling critiques overall they are open about the problems and act accordingly that much we can agree on and one of the few things we can agree on.

[MaraD_]

neither do you know their inner working or behind the scenes.

This is going to be me going off topic, and not suggesting the disagreement between u two is directly related to the following.

Not to disagree with you, but I think its worth pointing out we "sort of" have an idea what they were thinking, based on direct information leaked, and indirect information leaked. (Regarding BLU, before it was released)

BLU was meant to come out with SAM and RDM for SBs release. (As a full job)
BLU was meant to melee with a weapon, and was not categorized as a Caster DPS.
After SBs release
BLU had been made as a Magical Melee (the 1st in its sub role to exist, as we only have physical melee sub role)
BLU was being delayed further, to add far more spells to it.
Near the end of SB
BLU was being delayed even further for an unknown reason to the leaker.
Leakers last posts involved telling us about Adam and Eve (Omega final bosses original names before localization) GNB, DNC, Viera, and Ronso.

Going by this information, its easy to make a guess, as to what they were thinking, and might be thinking in the future. I agree we cant know for certain, but I feel its not too hard to fill in the gaps.
So I can disagree with you on how accurate we could guess, but I can also agree with you, that his guess seems really off base, and not aligned with prior information we have.

I'll list some of my personal thoughts I've collected, to find "patterns" in SEs behaviors, in which I try to guess what they are thinking.

Besides the leakers info, we knew Yoshida mentioned only making female viera, and male "beastmen". When Viera was 1st shown, I mentioned how other races showed 1 male and 1 female, while the viera artwork showed multiple females. I told others this was more than enough evidence to know they would be female only, and people argued with me, that i couldnt know what SE was thinking. (Over simplifying this example, as a lot more happened)

Going a bit further into "assumption" territory, 2.0 designed most DPS to just be a mishmash of most basic DPS mechanics. Every DPS pretty much shared the same mechanics, except cast bars, and positionals, which were given to melee/casters respectfully.
Only MNK was considered "the complex DPS" job.

3.0 came out, every job gained more complexity. IMO, it was to discourage people flocking to just the DPS role, based on "taking it easy". But why did I think this way? Because MNK barely changed. But others like DRG and BLM grew far more difficult. You also had cast bars thrown on BRD/MCH, to bring them in line with the other ranged DPS, but mostly to add to their difficulty, due to players flocking to BRD in 2.0, to make fights easier. (not just for the support buffs, but due to ease of playing being mentioned by yoshida) Even with the tanks, WAR barely changed, but PLD really changed, and PLD was mostly known for being too simplistic in 2.0, just spaming 123 all day.

Where is this "history lesson" going?
Sorry, im slowly getting there...

well, BLU was being designed in 3.0. With SAM being the 1st, and RDM being made after SAM. This made BLU last on the list to be made. (And was worked on before SB)
All SB jobs were streamlined, and made less clunky, and somewhat easier than 3.0. SAM felt roughly on par with the general difficulty of other DPS jobs in SB (not as punishing as 3.0 jobs, but equal to their 4.0 versions) So if SAM felt roughly equal to the 4.0 versions of DPS, why was RDM so simplistic? Its the only DPS who doesnt have their primary mechanic as a "Timer that ticks down".

I assumed it was SE saying, we're going to just make 1 DPS more simplistic than another. (I feel this is wrong, and will explain why later)

Now for Limited BLU... Yoshida brought up defenses for limited BLU, including the idea that BLU would have broken abilities to instantly kill bosses. And he HAD to give BLU these abilities, because it just wouldnt be BLU w/o them. The initial statement proved to be misleading right off the bat. And the second statement just doesnt make sense.
I assumed something was up at this point, but didnt know what yet. Yoshida has always covered up mistakes with these sorts of "salesman" white lies. Similar to how he tried to falsely justify why they gender locked the two races. (He already explained the reasoning for it many years ago, but people didnt like his justification, so he changed the narrative, so more people would accept the outcome.) I'm not saying he's wrong for doing this, I'm just pointing out it happens.

DNC is announced, and its trailer looks like it has cast bars, with familiar healing animations, and has physical ranged attacks. People were confused which role it was, and after yoshida answered, he even mentioned he wasnt sure if it was getting aiming or scouting gear yet. (Which seems odd to not be sure of this late, but that sort of thing can happen)
GNB also seemed odd, as its a whole job based on a weapon, rather than a "job". But nothing sus about it though.

Finally 5.0

Tanks and healers are nerfed into very simplistic designs. This seems to go in hand with my theory on why they raised DPS difficulty in 3.0, which is to encourage certain players into playing more tanks/healers, based on "ease".

NOW TO THE POINT FINALLY
My theory is as follows;
during heavensward, they planned out the next 3 jobs. SAM was melee DPS, and RDM was actually planned to be a Healer. Their DPS rotation would be very simplistic and easy to follow as a healer, as theres no timer ticking down.
And BLU was going to be a Melee Caster Tank. (Maybe what inspired PLD to get cast bar nukes)

WHY do I think that? Thats a VERY long story, but the simplistic version stems from how FF14 treats AoEs (BLU being one of the few AoE based jobs in FF history) BLUs need to get hit by spells in some games, plus 2 other factors that came up later. *

I think they didnt have time to finish BLU, and last minute changes to RDM slowed BLUs development further.
(Touching on RDM healer again)
I think one of the main reasons RDM became a DPS, was to include its melee combo. Which I think it has a shorter GCD solely to help it get back to healing faster, as a caster DPS doesnt need its burst phase to be 1.5s GCD. Its just comes off as random flavor. It also doesnt really regenerate MP naturally in its own kit, like the other casters. Its more like a healer, who tries not to run out of MP before the fight ends.

I think they planned to change tanks to be the "5.0 simplistic " design, as they were working on BLU, which lead them to make it into a DPS instead.
Which weapon did they give it? Why does BLU mimic FFXIs designs of; "See an ability" (not get hit by it) and "Equip spells into slots"?
I think they took its weapon, and animations away, which is why it got delayed so much, and was given even more spells later on. They turned it into a caster, and repurposed the "Tank" side of it, and its melee animations.
I noticed the GNB shells glow blue, and the original AF artwork design was Blue. * This is of course is a huge jump, but it would make sense why BLU has to "Equip" spells like FFXI, as it probably had to be assigned a slot in the "chamber" of the GNB weapon. If BLU isnt going to tank, it cant be hit by the spell anymore. If GNB is the only job we see using a melee weapon, its not too unreasonable to assume its the job that got the removed BLU weapon/animations. (Some GNB animations even show the weapon shooting, despite yoshida saying the weapon doesnt, because its FF8s gunblade)

The additional back up to this theory, is me also theorizing how DNCs storyline is about healing people, and why they have their odd heal. The general animations of some abilities, along with how the dance itself also nukes once done. If DNC were to be a healer, the dances would take up too much of your time needing to heal in some cases. so attaching a potent AoE heal that triggers once u do the dance, covers your bases pretty well. Also it would have to have ranged attacks. its DPS rotation would have to be pretty simple. But the part thats not accurate to healer, is that it has a buff timer, which ticks down... but then again, you can do your dance extra early, to refresh it... so its not TOO hard to do... right? Well healers difficulty got nerfed... so theres NO way such a healer could exist, and I think they wanted to keep what they made, and just go with a physical ranged DPS. This might explain why we went 2 expansions w/o a healer, and why yoshida wasnt sure on some of DNCs stuff, even as late as its official reveal.

Now, if BLU is too complex to be a tank, and GNB gutted BLU, it would make sense that they decided they could use the corpse of whats left of BLU, and "make a limited job".
This would explain all the odd decisions made about BLUs "limited" status, that clearly go against the very rationale that yoshida claims.

Am I right? I have no clue, I might be, I might not be, or I may only be half right. But this little example shows how its possible to "get in their heads" to some degree, and with the viera example, I was able to predict an outcome based on prior patterns. I may have as well with BLU, but I'll never know. But this explanation is also why I think BLU will eventually be made into a full job. (There are other reasons i believe as well)

[Auryan]

"One problem with that though: that's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where." - Auryan Post#362

I am not going to pretend at being honest, I am being honest (Brutally) when it comes to a topics discussing behind the scenes. The sentence you set in Post#362 says it all, "That's not how the developers operate. They wouldn't just spring a decision like that out of no where.". It is plain and out in the open to interpretation, but it is painfully obvious that the sentence implies that you think you know this is how FFXIV's developers operate. It is just as the same as claiming to know the inner workings. While you didn't directly said you claim to know, the sentence you have posted have implied so.

Yet you pursue to believe you can accurately describe their work ethics. You are not claiming, but you heavily implied you think you know their inner workings which is just as much as claiming to know behind the scenes. Make no mistake it is a bold sentence you have made and an unfounded one at that. I'll say it again neither you, me or anyone for that matter know what is going on behind the scenes of the FFXIV development team or their general work ethics. Every company has different work ethics depending on the laws of the state and nation. I know you want to make it clear that you are not claiming to know behind the scenes, then in future posts I'd suggest you refrain that thought or add in a bit of a disclaimer to prevent such confusion happening again. I don't have a 'Chip' on you, as I am often found in threads regarding Limited Jobs and Blue Mage. Make no mistake we both have different perspective and I don't take it personally. I am just simply correcting you in some of your statements.

Really? You want to play semantics?
Do you really need me to explain word for word how my opinion based on observation of past developer behavior is just that? An opinion. And not somehow akin to knowing their every move. If you're serious, I can't imagine how you would handle cable news.

[TeraTyrantShadic]

Really? You want to play semantics?
Do you really need me to explain word for word how my opinion based on observation of past developer behavior is just that? An opinion. And not somehow akin to knowing their every move. If you're serious, I can't imagine how you would handle cable news.

I am not playing any sort of semantics. I am not asking for you to explain it word for word, all I am asking for you to do is correct your mistakes and prevent from ever doing it again in the future and explain it clearly like with what you're doing now. Anyway this arch of the conversation is getting off topic and it is better we focus back on Blue Mage.

[Tabbs]

Really? You want to play semantics?
Do you really need me to explain word for word how my opinion based on observation of past developer behavior is just that? An opinion. And not somehow akin to knowing their every move. If you're serious, I can't imagine how you would handle cable news.

Past developer behavior has told us that job reveals are typically kept secret for fanfest. BLU being promoted to a full job would be a big deal -- pretty equivalent to revealing any other new job for an xpac, considering the amount of talk that would surround it. Assuming this was in the books, I don't think they would have told us about their plans for it when it could be saved for fanfest.