Blue mage is a waste of potential, change my mind.

[Auryan]

Nice



"It's for true blue!" Followed by "I'm not interested in having spells that directly do what the monster's spellsin do due to balance".


Incredible. Now I understand true blue is a meaningless word when you use it.


Doesn't need the spell the monster uses, cause that be game breaking you say. Hilarious, same logic people use to want DF blue but then you cry true blue.


Fish gallop is here but is not from me. You've no logical consistency. Learning spells could've been done through solo play, DF, and quests, and by your own words they don't have to be direct monster equivalence.


You've just used the logic DF players have used.

A non-3000 word, rambling essay of a reply? Very nice.

Again, you've claimed something I haven't said, proceeded to create straw men and false dichotomies, misrepresent my opinions (and the developers') and then have the audacity to call me "logically inconsistent"?

I have never used the term "true blue" you keep repeating about and have have never called BLU as needing to have 1:1 copies of monster abilities. You and only you have. And as far as this...conversation is concerned, you're having it only with yourself.

[HeulGDarian]

i like blu OwO

[Shougun]

A non-3000 word, rambling essay of a reply? Very nice.

Again, you've claimed something I haven't said, proceeded to create straw men and false dichotomies, misrepresent my opinions (and the developers') and then have the audacity to call me "logically inconsistent"?

I have never used the term "true blue" you keep repeating about and have have never called BLU as needing to have 1:1 copies of monster abilities. You and only you have. And as far as this...conversation is concerned, you're having it only with yourself.

This chain started directly from you quoting me on true blue. Also at the very start of blue mage release you had said they were making blue to be it's original form and so it needed to be limited.

[Auryan]

This chain started directly from you quoting me on true blue. Also at the very start of blue mage release you had said they were making blue to be it's original form and so it needed to be limited.

Must've missed that. Still, it's your term and I have never used it or plan to.

You remember what I wrote almost two years ago? I don't. Since you're really counting on this "gotcha!" moment, you can have it. You win, hurray. Is this conversation over now?

[Shougun]

Must've missed that. Still, it's your term and I have never used it or plan to.

You remember what I wrote almost two years ago? I don't. Since you're really counting on this "gotcha!" moment, you can have it. You win, hurray. Is this conversation over now?

I do, I found you notable at the time (not an insult). If you say whatever said then what you mean and claim now is what you mean- okay. Things don't have to be stuck in annoying stone, but I was using what you said long ago in addition to what you quoted me on to formulate the conversation. If you did not intend that to be part of it (your quote on me, which included that catch phrase wording) and whatever long ago is long ago and now is 'now'- okay.


Conversation ends since points based on were not apparently intended. Also doesn't mean I win . . Lol.


Fun to learn the word gish gallop though, I enjoyed learning that.

[ItMe]

Some have said SQEX mentioned in passing they could make BLU a full job. I've been digging to try and find a source for that, but in the process I kinda found them saying the opposite in an interview from last year with Destructoid (link at bottom):


"As far as whether or not Square Enix considers it a success, Yoshida answered with a resounding 'yes.'"


Obviously that says nothing about where they might want to take Blue Mage in the future, but it seems like for the time being the job is implemented as intended and, as far as I can find, no one from SQEX has commented publicly that it needs fixing.


https://www.destructoid.com/stories/...e-543587.phtml

[TeraTyrantShadic]

What? So BLU is only BLU if it's 1:1 with all of the series' spells? You can see why I didn't assume that was what you meant since my comment assumed you were being reasonable. BLU exists within XIV and isn't here to blow things apart. I don't know why a lot of people here gravitate to the idea that BLU should either be God-mode or a "normal" job.

Not many are asking for a 1:1 for the spell list, throughout 5-11 every spell list for Blue Mage is different from each other while still having some of the iconic spells. Most of the time either they are nerfed (for FFXI case) or they are buffed (FFVIII) or some are omitted just to either keep it balanced, stick to the lore or just cause. Here is the thing, the developers did say it was meant for solo content but at the same time said you should be able to solo most of it. You can, but it just takes about 30mins+ if you are syncing a dungeon alone. Plus if you want your skill and you went solo, you just get a random chance of learning it rather than getting a guarantee from it as a group.

Here is the thing, Single Player games allow you to be ‘God-mode’ after you earned it which make sense, spending countless hours on a game and in the end getting the best of the best gears to fight the optional boss (Which sometimes are ridiculously OP than the final boss of the game and you need these high tier gear to beat it). That sort of logic doesn’t apply to an MMO because most of the time you’ll be interacting with the overworld as well and if they allow god-like skills, people will have a lot more of a hard time doing FATEs when there is tons of Blue Mages spamming Level 5 Death consistently without a cooldown (Thankfully, there is a cooldown) or skills with flat damage. So really, the obvious solution is to make it a normal job.

Depends on what they meant by group play. Seeing as 4.5 BLU encouraged people to get spells together (at least the non-primal ones) and that is clearly group oriented. Perhaps they meant in the context of balanced, end-game like current Savage and Ultimate. They certainly wouldn't want BLU messing the delicate balance there. That is also backed up by them saying BLU's cap wouldn't match with the current expansion.

Group play is just group play, there is only one meaning in that 'Two or more participants doing an activity together' there is no specific definition what they meant by that even in a game especially one that is a MMORPG (it is in the acronym). Blue Mage can't upset the balance in raids, because the raids nowadays have changed from ARR and HW times to now. They are vastly different, during ARR and HW you had to travel to the raid boss. Now you just spawn in front of the boss. Second you can't use Level 5 Death, Missiles, Launcher, 36-29/510 and Doom on raid bosses as that defeats the whole purpose of a raid boss and not just that we have achievements regarding about clearing both Coil of Bahamut and Alexander meaning the bosses are immune to these one shot. Even in utility you have to ask yourself, should I sacrifice my DPS to keep myself safe (Diamondback) or to heal the entire party (White Wind). Red Mage have the option to heal and raise, but doing that cuts down their DPS and it is better if nobody died in a raid. Also may I need to remind that there some raid mechanics are fixed/flat damage. Some can be shared between party members to spread the damage.

My comment about accessibility was in context of standard jobs. Standard jobs are designed to be as welcoming and easy to pick up by anybody. BLU isn't one, it's a limited job. They want as many people to pick it up, play it and collect spells/complete the achievements, but treat it as side content that it is.

Except it's not. Blue Mage is easy to pick up, especially when you level it (NOT POWER-LEVELING) and learn the spells at the same time. The only reason why some people find it hard is because not many (I can just assume) are willing to put in the effort to go out and find the spells. The problem is not that it is not easy to pick up, the problem is the effort you have to go through obtaining the spells. Even then it is not a problem, had they made quests where you do combat with mobs that actually have a Blue Mage spell for you to learn, like one of the Blue Mage quests where you fight a Magitek Vanguard, the monster literally does Drill Cannon. It'll still be true to Blue Mage because you have just learned from a monster rather than a quest, also most of the instant/flat damage spells are at Level 50 (Tailscrew); Locked behind a side quest like Hildebrand (Missiles); Level 60 (Launcher & Level 5 Death); Masked Carnival after clearing 20 Stages (Doom) which is only unlocked at Level 50); meaning you can't one shot the mobs before you reach Level 50 Dungeons, because you have to be Level 50+ to even do Masked Carnival or the dungeon because they are still locked behind level requirement.

If they didn't give Blue Mage the EXP boost they would level at a slow rate, but even then it makes it easier for people to learn spell from quests and from overworld because it prevent them from immediately killing the mobs, not just that but we have tool tips and a text explaining about what is going to happen like when we do Bozja relic after all the role play text (White box text) or even a cutscene skip it shows a transparent text box explaining how you can obtain the memories needed for your relic, they could have done that with Blue Mage quests telling you that the mobs in this battle, quest or instance can teach you a move then you already remove majority of the problems and still stay true to the core identity of Blue Mage. When that happens once, people will automatically know the quest will contain spell they could learn and will actively avoid using flat damage/instant kill spells. As for the totems, they can keep them. However instead of using them as Masked Carnival rewards make them a learning reward where it rewards the players spells after learning X amount of spells.

Also jobs aren't side content. They are a way for a player to experience the content and not just some mini game. They can have their own side content like Fisher's Ocean fishing. I mean Red Mage is a versatile class like Blue Mage but why don't they have their own thing? It is because every job's content has a goal that can benefit the player a lot. Like with Bozja we get BiS Gear with 5 materia slots, that is far better than Eden weapons (depending on what relic you want). Bozja is also a side content and so is relic, it is not mandatory you do relic. Hell the same can be said for savage and ultimate raids because nobody is forcing you to do it therefore it is a side content and it is there for those who want to do it and they can keep doing it until they are done with it. Making a job a side content is never a good idea, it is better as a way for players to experience the content as a Blue Mage rather than playing it like a side content.

[Shougun]

@itMe, just to add I've never heard of SE saying they might add normal either. I find that they seem to have sped up the level gap might mean something is possible, but for words from SE... Im in agreement.


@Tera some of Auryan and I's comments would be careful to use since we both had some wrong impressions. That they're not obsessed like some of us on blue would make sense they don't memorize everything, like I said a little bit ago I found them notable as in the begining they had admitted SE didn't really make a solo job as they said (but they also weren't really interested in being upset about a sole slide like some of us), they are naturally enjoying the concept unlike some of us lol, and the reason why I went at them on the 'logical' note was because long ago they had said some of the 'both' limited and normal ideas were not terrible (though they found them concerning if it damaged the quality of limited, and unlikely due to extra resource cost)- so a few pages ago when they said some of our ideas were adding a bunch of skills to the starting zones I was already a bit on the offensive (but that they recently said they don't recall everything two years ago makes it clear they weren't really thinking of the history we had long ago). I don't remember everything I do, like what I eat or wear each day is a mystery to me the next day lol. I tend to have a pretty good memory on impressions and intentions of what people say though (it also means I get upset easily if things diverge and no clarification is made, like the slide from 2018 that doesn't bother them sincerely bothers me as it feels like a lie). In my defense I know they normally snip my quotes, even long ago, so when they left the catch phrase in there I assumed they did it with purpose (which was not their intent).


Whatever they feel about our interaction I hope they would agree we would have been far quicker and cordial if we were speaking in person. As we could have quickly rectified concepts (also I admit to writing a lot but it's because I enjoy it and I've no idea which part of an idea someone wants to discuss or remembers so I tend to reiterate and expand everything, probably a bad habbit but I prefer to do it this way so each person can't claim to not know my intent... In person we would have avoided that and gone point by point).


Of course I'm with you in making blue different than it is now, and of course Auryan is enjoying the PF concept (using history here but I feel confident enough on that to say it lol).

[Chasingstars]

Iunno I mostly enjoy the experience of helping other blue mages level and get the spells they need for stuff. Being a mentor of sorts. Its always fun to get them to Costa Del Sol, teach them Flying Sardine, then let them tag a mob as I then delete it with one ability. Their reaction to the level ups is usually wonderful moment. Its also just such a great feeling of, with a few tips of how to use certain spells like loom and what not, to see their joy after being Azulmagia. Even just helping them learn a spell like Inferno from Ifrit and their happiness from finally getting it after how many attempts is just a great reward.

Aside from the quest mandatory spells, I try to teach them: Loom, Sonic Boom, Sharpened Knife, and Abyssal Transfixition.

While I have leveled by myself before, its frankly a tedious process of grinding mobs for a long while. Plus being by yourself instead of with someone whose acting like a coach, Iunno just feels draining and lonely.

I'm personally happy that blue mage is going from 60 to 70 and getting more spells as it allows for more of those moments. Though I understand if not everyone just wants memories instead of being able to just go into a duty roulette as a blue mage (albeit modified for that content).

[ADVSS]

Iunno I mostly enjoy the experience of helping other blue mages level and get the spells they need for stuff. Being a mentor of sorts. Its always fun to get them to Costa Del Sol, teach them Flying Sardine, then let them tag a mob as I then delete it with one ability. Their reaction to the level ups is usually wonderful moment. Its also just such a great feeling of, with a few tips of how to use certain spells like loom and what not, to see their joy after being Azulmagia. Even just helping them learn a spell like Inferno from Ifrit and their happiness from finally getting it after how many attempts is just a great reward.

Aside from the quest mandatory spells, I try to teach them: Loom, Sonic Boom, Sharpened Knife, and Abyssal Transfixition.

While I have leveled by myself before, its frankly a tedious process of grinding mobs for a long while. Plus being by yourself instead of with someone whose acting like a coach, Iunno just feels draining and lonely.

I'm personally happy that blue mage is going from 60 to 70 and getting more spells as it allows for more of those moments. Though I understand if not everyone just wants memories instead of being able to just go into a duty roulette as a blue mage (albeit modified for that content).

Thanks for reminding me, abyssal is one of the ones im missing, is it a levequest only way to get it?