Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Generally because the "you pull you tank" mantra describes what happens in MMOs when threat is difficult to establish, especially with MMOs that give a emnity bonus on the one who first establishes threat. In these cases the mantra descibes what often happens.

It wasn't really created to apply to MMOs like modern FFXIV which is why the rule rarely occurs and when it does it has to be deliberately enforced

It isn't a rule, it's a tantrum from inept/lazy tanks.

[Seddrinth]

You should have kicked him immediately, not at the end. 2 wrongs don't make 1 right.

I'm gonna be honest I haven't lost any sleep over this.

[Seddrinth]

The only lesson learned here is that sometimes DF groups are extra terrible, which that dps likely already knew.

I mean everyone else in that group were double or triple legends so I'm pretty sure the terrible one was that dps lol.

[Erim-Nelhah]

I don't believe in "always pulling to the wall, no exceptions" so your assumption kind of does what assumptions tend to do.

You have some other glaring errors I'd like to point out though.

The mechanics of tanking or healing a large pull remain the same as a small one so this idea that someone might "not be comfortable" tanking or healing a large pull are just nonsense. That's like saying you aren't comfortable fighting enemies in multiples of two or enemies wielding axes - it's literally down to the differences in the animation you're going to see.

Just because the mechanics remain the same doesn't mean someone is comfortable with doing it. This mostly comes down to A: Experience, B: Gear, and C: Trust in the healer. I'm experienced enough to be comfortable doing big pulls except in certain specific cases (specific pulls in dungeons, certain leveling dungeons, and borderline gear in an endgame dungeon). Not everyone has that experience or comfort level.

If you have more 3 or more enemies on you as a tank you should be using your AoE combo. It's worth noting that this is also simpler than any tank's single target rotation so it's not as if expecting them to do so is asking them to do something hard. Beyond that you just use one CD at a time as they're up, don't stand in the orange and you're fine. Sure, there are ways to optimize beyond that but like... you don't need to. You don't even need good uptime to keep threat anymore, tank stance has such a strong multiplier.

True. BUT if the dps and/or healer don't have AoE or aren't using it, a big pull can take as long as chain-pulling the same number of packs, and is more stressful on the Healer.

As a healer all that changes is the bang for your buck that you might see from some of your mitigation (large pulls making it *more* effective) and an increased need to cast GCD heals. If you can't press the Cure 2 button sometimes do everyone a favor and get out of group content.

AoE mitagation...you mean Holy. Do Scholars and Astrologians still have an equivalent to that today?

Lastly, you bring up the idea that not all groups have AoE abilities at low levels- that's very true in a vacuum. The issue is that tanks do have AoE at those levels and that healers do not. This means the healer's potential dps in a group setting plummets while the tank's goes up. I guarantee you a tank mass-pulling Sastasha, even with two melee dps, will clear significantly faster than a single pulling group even with the healer reduced to hitting just their heal button sometimes.

This is true, and the mobs in these dungeons don't hit hard enough to really threaten killing a tank unless the healer is completely incompetent. That said, chain pulling in this case may go more smoothly, especially if the healer is new, and shouldn't be significantly slower.

So no, nothing you posted is in any way a decent defense of toxic/lazy players abdicating responsibility for their job and griefing their groups.

Duty Finder is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get. Sometimes you q for roulettes as a tank because you don't feel like waiting in the dps line and don't want to heal, and you get bad dps or a bad healer. This gives you a few options:

• Attempt a kick - This doesn't always work and even if it does you may have to wait for a replacement (esp. for a healer).
• Bail on the run and eat a penalty - If you were short on time, this may mean not doing dungeons at all that day, which feels bad if that was your expert (or you hadn't run your expert yet).
• Vote Abandon - For dungeons, by the time you can do this you could be close to done with the dungeon even with less-skilled players, plus it may not work. Really only useful if your group is absolutely horrible.
• Roll with it and adjust if needed - This is what I usually end up doing unless I'm q'd with a friend and can guarantee a boot....or the group is horrible enough that it might end up being faster to eat the penalty.

Now, since your last response makes it clear that you do actually tank, answer this: Would YOU want a dps or a healer running ahead and pulling for you? Think about it.

--Erim Nelhah

[Veis_Alveare]

I mean everyone else in that group were double or triple legends so I'm pretty sure the terrible one was that dps lol.

Lul "triple legend btw" as if spending a bunch of money exempts someone from being GCBTW, since that's the only way those clears happened for players who can't deal with a dps not respecting content.

[Nekaru_Infitima]

Erm to the continued Tank discussion, I think the point was missed. That I'd not tanked before and was just trying to use beginner dungeons to learn. By going ahead, they weren't giving me any room to learn since they took care of all of it. Hence why I left.

And to the point of not needing roles in beginner dungeons. Yeah, you don't. But I think it's better to learn in beginner ones than queue for a higher lvl one and make a lot of people mad when I fail to tank.

[Veis_Alveare]

Erm to the continued Tank discussion, I think the point was missed. That I'd not tanked before and was just trying to use beginner dungeons to learn. By going ahead, they weren't giving me any room to learn since they took care of all of it. Hence why I left.

And to the point of not needing roles in beginner dungeons. Yeah, you don't. But I think it's better to learn in beginner ones than queue for a higher lvl one and make a lot of people mad when I fail to tank.

I think its admirable that you want to go through the process of learning rather than just shoving your inexperience onto the backs of some hapless Holminster Switch DF group. Much appreciated!

I will say if you read your tooltips ahead of time there is very little to actually learn when it comes to tanking. You need to have your tank stance on and hit the enemies, as long as you do those two things everything will focus on you 100% of the time in a dungeon setting. Tank stance is a 10× enmity multiplier which means for a dps to take threat away from you they would need to do more than 10× the damage you're doing, something that is functionally impossible (aside from like the first few moments you've engaged something if someone pops a big move like a Dancer finish or something) as long as you keep hitting things.

Like by all means, work your way up to higher level tanking, but the situation you encountered is really just an opportunity to put to use the basic parts of your kit. Even if someone else hits something first if you come in with tank stance on in the matter of a few hits it will be on you no matter what.

I hope you don't let any of this discourage you, we always need more good tanks out there.

[Quintessa]

I think this game just needs more good people.

[Seddrinth]

Lul "triple legend btw" as if spending a bunch of money exempts someone from being GCBTW, since that's the only way those clears happened for players who can't deal with a dps not respecting content.

You seem really triggered by this lol. With the TOS, we can't say anything offensive to the player the only thing we can do is kick him. So your anger can be directed toward the rules. BTW I'd be happy to run savage or any of the 3 ultimates in game with you since you think my group paid for the clears. I want to see how good you are as well.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

You seem really triggered by this lol. With the TOS, we can't say anything offensive to the player the only thing we can do is kick him. So your anger can be directed toward the rules. BTW I'd be happy to run savage or any of the 3 ultimates in game with you since you think my group paid for the clears. I want to see how good you are as well.

Can't be that good, if a DPS pulling ahead upset you to such an extent.