Warriors Thoughts

[ZaqueXIII]

I personally hold that Gunbreaker is currently the most well-designed tank in the game. Instead of a weird bar that builds up randomly or based on combos and fills arbitrarily everything you do as Gunbreaker feels like it has a payoff and the flow makes sense. Combo gives ammo, ammo feeds into burst, burst window lines up with all cooldowns, Dump actions help with spacing it all works into this nice minute rotation with a big burst and a smaller burst window.

The dark knight is close with the only issue for them being managing their MP and knowing then they can spend on Damage and when they need to defend, on top of that they get rewarded for spending correctly by being refunded(in addition to lowering damage). But I agree with an earlier sentiment where spamming these "big attacks" makes them feel less powerful and I would prefer there was a better system.

with PLD and WAR, they feel like they have these antiquated hold outs from their early days, I would like to see them get something closer to an actual rework on the scale of what happened to the machinist. Yeah they have good core concepts but paladin's bar feels incredibly tacked on and Warrior is the only job that has entirely different meld priorities than the rest of its role is a good indicator that it has issues.

Id like to see warrior built more around infuriate(probably the best-designed aspect of warrior currently) and to be honest I haven't played enough paladin to know what best to highlight in their kit, but man that bar needs to be reworked.

[NyneSwordz]

I personally hold that Gunbreaker is currently the most well-designed tank in the game. Instead of a weird bar that builds up randomly or based on combos and fills arbitrarily everything you do as Gunbreaker feels like it has a payoff and the flow makes sense. Combo gives ammo, ammo feeds into burst, burst window lines up with all cooldowns, Dump actions help with spacing it all works into this nice minute rotation with a big burst and a smaller burst window.

The dark knight is close with the only issue for them being managing their MP and knowing then they can spend on Damage and when they need to defend, on top of that they get rewarded for spending correctly by being refunded(in addition to lowering damage). But I agree with an earlier sentiment where spamming these "big attacks" makes them feel less powerful and I would prefer there was a better system.

with PLD and WAR, they feel like they have these antiquated hold outs from their early days, I would like to see them get something closer to an actual rework on the scale of what happened to the machinist. Yeah they have good core concepts but paladin's bar feels incredibly tacked on and Warrior is the only job that has entirely different meld priorities than the rest of its role is a good indicator that it has issues.

Id like to see warrior built more around infuriate(probably the best-designed aspect of warrior currently) and to be honest I haven't played enough paladin to know what best to highlight in their kit, but man that bar needs to be reworked.

They're also the best designed tank in PvP. Aurora being self-targettable while Nascent Flash is not doesn't seem fair.

I still wish Onslaught didn't cost meter to be honest.

[Sqwall]

They're also the best designed tank in PvP. Aurora being self-targettable while Nascent Flash is not doesn't seem fair.

I still wish Onslaught didn't cost meter to be honest.

Nascent is self target-able now though. Does this work differently in PvP?

Additionally, I actually want Onslaught to be the opposite. Instead of using 20 gauge, have it grant 20 gauge, increase the cooldown, and have the cooldown reset with infuriate. This would really help out with the opener in gauge gains since tomahawk is the only way to pull from a distance without gauge (outside of provoke).

Opener: Onslaught>Infuriate>Nascent>Inner Chaos>Onslaught> Infuriate>Inner Chaos> Onslaught>Fell Cleave(optional).
Now you have 60 gauge to spend out of this proposed opener. And it effectively gives the Warrior a mini opener burst window, while increasing minor healing gains.

But then there is the whole Storms Eye buff, and do you start with Eye combo into your opener for more DPS? I still struggle with this when the infuriate opener is SOOO immediate and fast, and the eye combo is cumbersome and slow.

[Absurdity]

There is no "Infuriate Opener". Warrior has exactly 1 opener with the only "variable" being whether or not to pull with Tomahawk or Heavy Swing.


It is either Tomahawk(+Infuriate)->Heavy Swing->Maim(+Tincture)->Storm's Eye->Inner Chaos(+Inner Release)->Fellcleave(+Upheaval)->Fellcleave(+Onslaught)->Fellcleave x3->Infuriate->Inner Chaos->Heavy Swing(+Infuriate)->Inner Chaos->Maim->Storm's Path->Fellcleave->Eye Combo(+Upheaval) and go from there.


Or Heavy Swing(+Provoke->Infuriate)->Maim(+Tincture)->Storm's Eye->Inner Chaos(+Inner Release)->Fellcleave(+Upheaval)->Fellcleave(+Onslaught)->Fellcleave x3->Infuriate->Inner Chaos->Heavy Swing->Maim(+Infuriate)->Inner Chaos->Storm's Path->Fellcleave->Eye Combo(+Upheaval) and go from there.


One or the other simply depends on the timing of phase changes later in the fight. Very rarely you can make a case for refreshing Eye early because a mechanic forces you to disengage the boss at the same time you would have to refresh it but doing anything else than getting that Eye buff up first is simply a bad opener.

[NyneSwordz]

Nascent is self target-able now though. Does this work differently in PvP?

Additionally, I actually want Onslaught to be the opposite. Instead of using 20 gauge, have it grant 20 gauge, increase the cooldown, and have the cooldown reset with infuriate. This would really help out with the opener in gauge gains since tomahawk is the only way to pull from a distance without gauge (outside of provoke).

Opener: Onslaught>Infuriate>Nascent>Inner Chaos>Onslaught> Infuriate>Inner Chaos> Onslaught>Fell Cleave(optional).
Now you have 60 gauge to spend out of this proposed opener. And it effectively gives the Warrior a mini opener burst window, while increasing minor healing gains.

But then there is the whole Storms Eye buff, and do you start with Eye combo into your opener for more DPS? I still struggle with this when the infuriate opener is SOOO immediate and fast, and the eye combo is cumbersome and slow.

Sadly nascent flash does work differently in pvp. Also, I kind of wish they replaced overpower with steel cyclone like they did in pvp.

[NyneSwordz]

Also, I don't mind Onslaught costing rage, but I would like infuriate to work outside of combat. They could just make rage decay over time to prevent wars from forcing raid groups to wait for their infuriate to come off cooldow.

[Sqwall]

Also, I don't mind Onslaught costing rage, but I would like infuriate to work outside of combat. They could just make rage decay over time to prevent wars from forcing raid groups to wait for their infuriate to come off cooldow.

Yes this would make more sense for rage to deteriorate over time, but keep make it for out of combat only. Having it deteriorate in combat reminds me of Greased Lightning mechanics.

[Vyrerus]

ARR had two tank spots

I know this post is almost two weeks old, but man, gotta disagree. ARR had two tank spots for PLD x2 until 2.1. Then people started bringing WARs seriously, before that if you were a WAR then you were benefitting from tokenism/people's desire for diversity (or a PLD's desire for e-peen). After 2.1 it goes as you said, but WAR still didn't cement in for a lot of people due to a lot of folks being unwillingly to drop Defiance, ever. Not too mention the majority of healers not wanting to heal you if you dropped it, thinking you'd committed a deadly sin.

HW had two tanks spots, and those spots were for DRK and WAR. PLD didn't get a fight that was good for it in reality until Thordan Extreme. Even then its low damage made more serious types frown it down still. Due to the magical damage tethers in A3S it would run out of CDs. It also didn't leverage enough damage, particularly in early weeks. Whereas Inner Beast was a godsend in that fight. My group did it PLD/WAR when we finally cleared, and I wound up having to catch pretty much every tether in the final 3 tornado phases with Inner Beast. Of course, my co-tank was pretty bad so... that's also a factor.

The addition of Deliverance and Fell Cleave was supposed to guide all tank players into realizing they were supposed to drop tank stance when OTing, a the very least, and it more or less worked by being enforced by visibility. It showed you what the tank was doing when Defiance went off. Only, nothing in the game leans on teaching concepts to players, so we got a bunch of non-tanks crying foul. As for that minute opener thing, that was a whole thing with SMN and SCH and aetherflow too, and it certainly didn't eclipse that.

I don't miss that, constantly having to debate non-tanks about how to play my job, but I do miss my jobs being more involved with more combos and oGCDs. I also miss that little exploit where Raw Intuition caused heals to 100% crit from behind too, guarantee that Adlo. Can't remember when that got patched.

Maim -> 10%

Maim buff was 20% dmg buff.

[Lyth]

There was a minimum of one if not two PLD world firsts every tier in Heavensward. The PLD/DRK slot was a combined slot. Groups recruited for a player who knew how to do both and switch as required. There are a number of fights which definitely do favour PLD, especially in progression. A7S was probably the single best example. You can speedrun with anything after the fact, but let's face it, a lot of those later speedruns were just solo WAR once you had enough damage output to skip everything.

Raw Intuition was patched really early. I don't think that even lasted to the first tier release.

[Absurdity]

HW had two tanks spots, and those spots were for DRK and WAR. PLD didn't get a fight that was good for it in reality until Thordan Extreme. Even then its low damage made more serious types frown it down still. Due to the magical damage tethers in A3S it would run out of CDs. It also didn't leverage enough damage, particularly in early weeks. Whereas Inner Beast was a godsend in that fight. My group did it PLD/WAR when we finally cleared, and I wound up having to catch pretty much every tether in the final 3 tornado phases with Inner Beast. Of course, my co-tank was pretty bad so... that's also a factor.

PLD really got the short end of the stick in HW, both it's own and the encounter design worked against it. One of PLD's major features, the ability to block, didn't work on magic which made Shelltron and Bulwark completely useless in most fights since they dealt mostly magic damage. On top of PLD's low dps it made tank swaps extremely awkward because for some reason it's Halone's combo included Riot Blade for MP regen and Royal combo included Savage Blade, having all your combos include an enmity generator wasn't exactly great design.