Toxic WHM Glare spammers

[Saefinn]

Just gonna toss this out there in regards to the proposed 80% statistic.

WHM is the most played healer in basically all content. If 80% of WHMs healed so little as to let people die all the time, or shoved the full burden of healing onto their cohealers in full party scenarios, wouldn't this be a prevalent enough issue that it would be widely regarded as fact by now?

Like, this would mean the community reaction to seeing a WHM would be "oh no, they almost assuredly aren't going to heal me, I am going to die" which, if we look back at 3.0 AST (which had a different source problem but the end result of not healing enough was the same) would mean WHMs would be getting kicked regularly just for simply being WHMs.

I mean heck, if there was a single job that the presence of signaled death that frequently for whatever reason I would probably be kicking them myself.

So why is it with this ridiculous statistic (and let's be clear even a far lower percentage than 80 would still be laughable but this guy decided to stick to 80 so here we are) even being debated at all?

There is currently zero evidence for the claims the OP has made, far more people countering his points than agreeing with him and ample evidence for anyone who cares to look up actual damage and healing statistics for this game to literally know that this is a bunch of bull.

By contrast. Back in Heavensward it was well renowned that MCH would do a low DPS and people would refuse to let them into parties. My MCH friend who had a really good DPS struggled to get PF clears because he kept finding groups who refused MCH's, this was before they got buffed. I also recall a normal mode Bismarck with only MCH DPS that struggled to clear the DPS check.

And there's other stigma I've seen in my time:
DRG's who floor tank, when I get a DRG, I know there's a chance I'll have to raise them
BLM's who eat AoE's to save their DPS, I know I might have to watch their health more.
3.0 DRK's who were squishy because people hadn't learned how to mitigate with it. I had to be extra vigilant versus WAR or PLD.

For those, I'd still not use 80% or even dread having any of them. If 80% of WHM's were as bad as the OP makes out, people would not be using them or would be dreading them on seeing them in their party as you say.

But WHM lacks any such level of stigma, at most there's "healers who DPS too much" and that whole row, but that's a part of their job and as I've already highlighted, this tends more to be an error in judgement and not what the OP claims, what the OP claims I find to be a small minority. Given the OP's claims, I'd expect there to be more of a stigma. And for there to such caution when seeing one in a party. I'd expect whenever I get a WHM healer that there's a high chance they're going to prioritise their DPS over their healing and when I'm a PLD be ready on hand with Clemency or when I'm a RDM ready with Vercure or when I'm an AST or SCH co-healer that I'm going to have to carry their weight.


There's the odd bad run where I might have had to use Clemency a few times because the healer struggled. The only time I can think of I've had to think about it for a whole run is when the WHM had bad connection issues not because of Glare, they were transparent about it, offered to leave as it looked to be causing problems and I told them "no, it's fine" because I was a PLD and could help with the heals and we did fine.

But the "odd" bad run is never a reflection of a large percentage of people. They'll happen. It sucks, but is the nature of a multiplayer game.

[Hatfright]

Just gonna toss this out there in regards to the proposed 80% statistic.

And again.
"Subjective expirience". Noone claimed it's 80% of WHMs players, just 80% of those that were met during his playtime. One might think a person describing his expirience knows a little more about it than you do. Projecting that subjective expirience to the whole playerbase was your doing in the first place. Well, not your personally, but you get the idea. At least I hope you do.

I swear to god, the more topics I read, the more I'm getting convinced people here only care about hard proofs for literally anything subjective. That and calling people names in a second someone doesn't agree with them. Thats just sad.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Ah, don't you love it when people try their hardest to peddle something subjective as an objective fact and then backpedal (or have their FC mate backpedalling for them) as soon as they're called out?

I mean, we sure haven't seen someone presenting their "subjective opinion", argue the rest of the topic as if it applies to the whole playerbase and then retreat back into the safety of "it's just my subjective opinion!" when it doesn't go well for them. Kinda like the people who say something controversial then cover their ass by saying it was just a joke.

[BokoToloko]

Only time I had healers forget to heal at all was one specific fight during a DF run of Syrcus Tower. Was tanking the 2nd boss as DRK and the 2 WHM i had didn't even bother throwing a single at me as I was slowly dropping health. Not even when i was at 10% health. Not even a Benediction.

And while it was only once, I have to admit it felt really awful when it happened. Specially with it being a slow death.

To me, a Healer that doesn't DPS during downtime is a bad healer, and I can somewhat bear to call them out on that during a run. A healer that doesn't bother throwing a single heal is not a healer and, as such, it doesn't belong in that spot. Thus, it's a kick for them if they don't bother with keeping people alive repeatedly. Thankfully, I have yet to get to that point (though it's mostly because I usually queue DF as a Healer).

[RajNish]

Thus, it's a kick for them if they don't bother with keeping people alive repeatedly.

The problem is that most often they do not respond to a request to heal, they simply ignore it. It is also impossible to kick them, cause they simply do not roll loot, and then the next battle begins. Once I saw how a non-healing conjurer went through the Labyrinth without doing anything except spam stones. This player knew what he was doing. Most of his classes were 80s.

[Saefinn]

And again.
"Subjective expirience". Noone claimed it's 80% of WHMs players, just 80% of those that were met during his playtime. One might think a person describing his expirience knows a little more about it than you do. Projecting that subjective expirience to the whole playerbase was your doing in the first place. Well, not your personally, but you get the idea. At least I hope you do.

I swear to god, the more topics I read, the more I'm getting convinced people here only care about hard proofs for literally anything subjective. That and calling people names in a second someone doesn't agree with them. Thats just sad.

For me, the criticism is that I sincerely doubt his experience is anything near 80%, because it'd be one heck of a statistical anomaly when people don't tend to find this and there is nothing that really quantifies it being that high. But given this is being presented as a bigger issue than it is, then yes, to avoid misinformation, people will scrutinise it, because it gives people the wrong idea and heck, could even give the devs the wrong idea given they see feedback on these forums.

My main curiosity was how he judged those 80% to be "toxic glare spammers" and how all of the alternative explanations I gave did not apply, instead he doubled down his claim. Because it seems largely that his bad experiences are being interpreted and characterised in a singular way...and then the scale hyperbolised.

But he didn't accept my point that it's hypobole and took my alternative explanations as just making excuses for bad players. Of course he could have just said "that was your experience, this was mine" if that is what he really meant and quantified why his experience was different. Even when I brought up the fact Italk to players when there's problems with a run to show where I'm getting my alternative explanations from, he couldn't even back himself up with "well, this is what was different, this is what this player said" but rather, "this is what happened and this is my assumption of it". The latter of which I tend to find typical of people who have the attitude that "bad players" are just bad and don't believe they'll improve, as evidenced by him more or less saying that to me later, which in itself is a very presumptuous attitude, because rarely do I see those people actually bother trying to find out why a problem happened in a run of something and fallback on the assumption they're just bad players...which is seems to be what the guy is doing. Of course there could be multiple reasons why a 'thing' happened and the answer 'because they are bad' is not always the correct one.

[RajNish]

The latter of which I tend to find typical of people who have the attitude that "bad players" are just bad and don't believe they'll improve, as evidenced by him more or less saying that to me later, which in itself is a very presumptuous attitude, because rarely do I see those people actually bother trying to find out why a problem happened in a run of something and fallback on the assumption they're just bad players...which is seems to be what the guy is doing. Of course there could be multiple reasons why a 'thing' happened and the answer 'because they are bad' is not always the correct one.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you that a player who goes to a raid as a healer and does not heal at all, while the second healer is forced to do all the work for both, this is not a "player who will improve" or "a player who made a mistake", this is a player who came to parasitize on the group, and yes, this is a bad player.

I am very interested in why you do not rush to the defense in another thread, where someone said that almost the entire FF 14 player base is bad? Why aren't you defending the "bad pugs"? Probably because this is not your personal interest and passion.

[Hatfright]

Ah, don't you love it when people try their hardest to peddle something subjective as an objective fact and then backpedal (or have their FC mate backpedalling for them) as soon as they're called out?

I mean, we sure haven't seen someone presenting their "subjective opinion", argue the rest of the topic as if it applies to the whole playerbase and then retreat back into the safety of "it's just my subjective opinion!" when it doesn't go well for them. Kinda like the people who say something controversial then cover their ass by saying it was just a joke.

How nice of you to come back, my very reasonable fellow! I was wondering when will you show up with more gibberish to throw around. Leaving 1-2 comments without participating in a talk doesn't make you look smart, I hope you know that. Best wishes.

[Kes13a]

with all of the replies by the OP and their friend, I can see why "80%" of healers didnt want to heal them

my subjective opinion of course

[Hatfright]

with all of the replies by the OP and their friend, I can see why "80%" of healers didnt want to heal them

my subjective opinion of course

Sure, forum replies deffo is a merit of our ability to play the game with random strangers. Nice catch here.