Toxic WHM Glare spammers

[Shanir]

I’ve been tanking recently and noticed a few healers who just spam the dps skills when my health is quickly depleting making me pop more cool downs to mitigate the damage, if that’s the case I will pull less mobs.

I see healers not utilise their skills I’ve been in level 60 dungeons and they spam only cure 2, I can’t tank efficiently if I can’t trust my healer.

I love using my whole skill set! And you can still damage and keep everyone topped up all about how you manage your time.

[Aizuh]

i usually steamroll through content no problem. I don't know how much the healer class has changed coming from the time before havensward content. But on a wipe in a run for any trial/dungeon/raid i take the blame if i tank. I'm a persistence player, I don't care how many times i wipe cause the first win completion is more accomplishing to me no matter how many tries plus a new step up of learning more as a tank and or dps to stand out from others. If anyone has seen me as a dps in dungeons recently it was to help a friend or an fc member understand the content since their can't be two tanks to one dungeon and to help them gain exp while doing so. I help them learn and to protect them from getting ridiculed/trolled by the select few of players cause they were still new to the class even though they leveled through content pretty fast.

[Limonia]

While it's definitely true what people have said in this thread about "I'm not going to overheal if my co-healer casts Medica + Medica II for every AoE" - I'm trying my best to optimize heals as well, waiting for Asylum or Assize if no healing is needed right now, and spamming Glare A LOT - those WHMs who NEVER heal DO exist as well.

There is a difference between optimization and refusing to do your job of keeping the party alive.

Those kind of healers have existed for years though, and they aren't WHMs only, but SCHs as well (ASTs less so, you often get at least some oGCD heals because Malefic allows for better weaving). I mean if you cast Dia anyway, you can as well weave Asylum or so. But I've absolutely seen healers not even using their oGCD heals after an instant GCD.

Other than that, I'm of the opinion that both healers should use their toolkit when it's needed. Not only one of them. It's better when BOTH healers try to use their GCDs to DPS and their oGCDs to heal. And when there's a situation where you HAVE to use a GCD heal then PLEASE DO IT. Who cares if you lose a Glare/Broil/Malefic? At the same time, you don't have to heal up everyone as soon as they lose 5 HP or your co-healer has nothing to do but spam their one-button DPS rotation.

Also as a tip, I'd recommend never waiting on Assize and treating it as a dps oGcd.

Oh, I use Assize on CD 99% of the time, don't worry. The only time I don't is when it's back up like 1-2 seconds before a raid-wide AoE.
What I said above was worded weirdly. I definitely didn't mean to say that I'm waiting to use Assize for healing when it's up. Rather that I wait FOR Assize to heal my group instead of using a GCD if it's safe.

[RajNish]

Everytime a healer on this thread educates you your response is the same. "I'm not talking about healers who dps. I'm talking about healers that don't heal."

That's a direct contradiction to the title of this post. You specifically called out "toxic white mage glare spammers" instead of "toxic white mages who refuse to heal" Out if ignorance you equated them to being one and the same. If you don't want white mages who dps properly to defend our playstyle then don't title it so misleadingly.

Well, you can say "another weird dude", shrug your shoulders and don't read instead of immediately starting the fight. After all, this is just a game and no one really tells you how you should play. Is that so? I don't understand what makes you keep coming back to my "ignorant" messages over and over again.

I’ve been tanking recently and noticed a few healers who just spam the dps skills when my health is quickly depleting making me pop more cool downs to mitigate the damage, if that’s the case I will pull less mobs.

I see healers not utilise their skills I’ve been in level 60 dungeons and they spam only cure 2, I can’t tank efficiently if I can’t trust my healer.

I love using my whole skill set! And you can still damage and keep everyone topped up all about how you manage your time.

The problem is that they don’t want to heal and they just don’t think that the whole party is forced to reduce their efficiency, which means that the run will go more slower.

Other than that, I'm of the opinion that both healers should use their toolkit when it's needed. Not only one of them.

I think the problem is also in the system itself. For example, in SWTOR you can take one dps with heal instead of heal. Here, unfortunately, variations are impossible, so in some raids or trials you get green dps, although you didn't count on it. In addition, many think that their co-heal will heal alone, so they immediately start dps only without even asking.

[Liam_Harper]

While it's definitely true what people have said in this thread about "I'm not going to overheal if my co-healer casts Medica + Medica II for every AoE" - I'm trying my best to optimize heals as well, waiting for Asylum or Assize if no healing is needed right now, and spamming Glare A LOT - those WHMs who NEVER heal DO exist as well.

Oh they definitely exist. The arguments in this thread are most likely because the majority of us haven't experienced the exaggerated "80% of WhM's don't heal" thing the OP is on about. In my own experience a no-heal glarebot is a very rare sighting. Also as a tip, I'd recommend never waiting on Assize and treating it as a dps oGcd.

The fact the OP seems to have experienced such a high number as 80% suggests it's an issue with their own perception and they're complaining about some healers who are actually optimizing gameplay or waiting on Swiftcasts to Raise or such.

Fully agree on both healers using their toolkit. Learning to recognize when you need to GcD heal or even hardcast rez and biting the bullet is part of being a great healer. However it can go deeper than that. Recognizing your co-healers HoT icons for example helps significantly. Same with Asylum, Soil and especially Earthly Star. A good AST can take a bulk of healing with oGcD's (unless half the group is in Narnia) and should be allowed to and WhM has a slow wind up due to the 30 sec lily wait, so SCH/AST should take the first raidwide.

[RajNish]

The fact the OP seems to have experienced such a high number as 80% suggests it's an issue with their own perception and they're complaining about some healers who are actually optimizing gameplay or waiting on Swiftcasts to Raise or such.

There are a lot of bad healers in this game. If they want to DPS only as WHM, can they at least use assize? Nope, glare glare glare die, glare glare die, idling, die again, glare oops die. Help rezzing? Lol please, they have to glare first.
My experience in Puppet's Bunker basically.

Yes, this healers was definitely "waiting on Swiftcasts".

[Veis_Alveare]

Yes, this healers was definitely "waiting on Swiftcasts".

The idea that someone won't have swift on CD just because they've been using Glare is only further showing your lack of understanding when it comes to WHM.

WHM relies on Swift more for movement than any other job in the game including BLM.

[RajNish]

The idea that someone won't have swift on CD just because they've been using Glare is only further showing your lack of understanding when it comes to WHM.

WHM relies on Swift more for movement than any other job in the game including BLM.

Did you take this seriously? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to mislead you. It was sarcasm. Because the healer in the Bunker, whom I met two days ago, did not help resurrect the group, after the boss of another alliance killed us. He did not wait for the Swiftcast, he just continued to use Glare while I alone was forced to resurrect everyone.

[Packetdancer]

It is beneficial for me if the tank drops below 50%, because then my Excog will be effective, so I never overheal and prefer to deal damage instead.

No offense, but that wasn't well-communicated in your original post. Partly because...

Therefore, your case and mine is not about this, it is about the standard healers dps actions, but I'm talking about cases when a party is in a critical state or is dead like in the Bunker and the healer continues to ignore this situation. This not normal.

...it's not normal, and in my experience, not common either. I grant my dataset may be skewed because like 70% of the time I am the healer, but I really don't see this often. And certainly nowhere near as often as your post gives the impression you think it happens; saying it's so prevalent gives the strong impression that you are under the impression that a healer doing damage at all is giving up the opportunity to heal.

I mean, I would say that it's also not normal for a tank to refuse to enable tank stance and not AoE mobs, just focusing on single-targeting a single mob. I've seen that, though. I've actually seen that more than I've seen DPS-only healers... though admittedly less than I've seen Cure-spam healers who will just do /emotes or stand there when there's no healing to be done.

But I wouldn't say any of those scenarios are common, certainly not enough to post like it's some sort of epidemic of people acting that way in-game. "I've run into a few healers who will DPS to the exclusion of healing, and I'm finding that frustrating" is a statement I think many people can agree with. "80% of mages are toxic glare spammers, and we must stop this epidemic!!!1!!11" comes across a bit differently.

However, if I had to guess, I'd say that people are suddenly feeling sensitive to it because of Bozja. (A theory supported by the various times Bozja or Critical Engagements have been explicitly mentioned in this thread.) It's still early days, people are still trickling in, and many folks have not learned the mechanics for critical engagements yet. This is a recipe for Much Death.

Simultaneously, it's a combat setup we're not used to. Critical engagements feel like organized duties; they have complex mechanics and they're off a separate circle where other people can't come in and join. But in trials, raids, and alliance raids, you have organized parties; if I'm in Puppets' Bunker and the healer in another alliance goes down, I can notice it in their alliance window, select that healer, and rez them. (Assuming I've got Swiftcast, and some other healer doesn't try to rez them at the same moment.)

But in a critical engagement, I can see only whoever I happen to be partied with; I might have ended up solo-queuing and not be in a party at all. And that gets rough. I see someone dead on the ground over there, but everyone's running around to avoid the angry red horsebird and I can't easily click on them to rez them, etc. Someone else is injured, but trying to click onto them to target them for healing can be difficult in the crowd; I can't use function keys or the controller selectors, because we're not in a party or alliance. I do try my best to keep the main tank healed up if I see them hurting (because I can target the boss and hit 'T' to swap to who they're targeting), and if someone does a '/say Rez pls?' or something, I can raise them because I can now target them from the chatbox... but otherwise, people in Bozjan Critical Engagements are probably on their own when it comes to assistance from people outside their party.

And that's unfortunate. If you end up on the ground in a Critical Engagement and sit there, seeing an AST or WHM still attacking the boss while you're on the ground, I guarantee it feels frustrating. (Hey, I've been there; it is frustrating.) And so it probably makes "healers who DPS rather than healing/rezzing" feel like it's suddenly a more common thing, and I suspect it makes people sensitive to the perception of it elsewhere in the game.

Maybe you're in the Bunker and see one healer who legitimately is clearly DPS'ing rather than healing your party, causing them to die; yeah, that sucks, but normally you could just brush it off as one terrible healer. Then you go into Bozja and in two critical engagements you see people on the ground while a healer is still upright and DPS'ing. Then in another Bunker run your party is down, and you see a healer in another party doing damage. But hey, you also had that Ridorana run where a healer did come through in the clutch and rezzed your party's healer, thus saving everyone! And being sensitized from the one experience you might well go, "Four out of five times, healers just left us on the ground! 80% of healers are toxic selfish DPS-only jerks!"

But the truth is likely that in Bozja, trying to get up other parties in a sane manner during a critical engagement is often a lost cause; you just have to opportunistically rez where you can and hope you get the right/useful person up. And in that second Bunker run, that healer might've had to use Swiftcast to rez someone else you didn't see go down, or had to use Swiftcast to open up a spot to move themselves out of the bad, or whatever else; slow-rezzing someone in many of those fights is a Bad Time waiting to happen, so they might well be biding time until Swiftcast came back up.

The healer in that first Bunker? Yeah, they were probably just a bad healer; that is a thing that happens.

But even with this ludicrously insufficient hypothetical sample size, that's only 20% of the healers hypothetical-you encountered, not 80%.

Are there some bad healers out there who will focus on DPS rather than healing? I don't run into them often, but yeah, they do exist. And even good healers can have a bad/distracted day where they're off their game and get tunnel vision on "We can burn this boss down quickly, I know it!" I don't think anyone in the thread would argue with that.

But saying that those bad healers are 80% of all healers in the game and it's an epidemic of toxicity? That's a bit of a wild claim, and the sort of thing that people—especially career healer mains—are going to push back against. And with a claim of it being that widespread, you kind of have to expect that people are going to read your complaint as being about healers doing damage at all.

[RajNish]

No offense, but that wasn't well-communicated in your original post. Partly because...

You ask me where these numbers come from? I really go through a lot of content, including savage and extreme, I have almost all the tank achievements. More than 300 runs on three tank classes. But mostly I play as a healer. I'm not talking about an epidemic, but I'm talking about a trend that increases in proportion to the player's lvl. Moreover, my friends, who perfectly play as WHM, who mains this class, are amazed at the number of impudent people who shift the work to others or make the tank survive in a regular dungeon, which goes through in no time.