Do you want healers to be reworked from the ground up?

[Veis_Alveare]

Fair, and that circles around to my point earlier: so if we've (relatively) normalized damage output, and normalized healing output, and returned to something approximating earlier AST and SCH design......... why would you ever bring the red headed stepchild who at this point has zero utility for no reason? I realize you didn't make this point, but I think it illustrates what I was saying before. The moment WHM personal damage enters the chat, the other two healers complain. WHM has to get a specialty that's actually useful. If it's not utility of any stripe or doing more damage, it's going to be exactly what it was before. Overhealer of the year.

But why can't all the healers just have utility? Like it doesn't take gigabrain coordination to press Chain Stratagem every two minutes, I think even the bad WHM players could cope if they had to use an occasional buff on someone. Give them Bravery and Faith with some % damage increase and nerf their personal dps a bit.

Boom, now each healer is somewhat reliant on the party for their dps.

I think people are way too caught up in job "identity" as if everyone needs a whole gimmick or they're all the same. No one needs to be "the buffer" or "a shield healer" especially since (as we learned from the HoT/shield dichotomy) that just doesn't function in practice.

AST has a very similar kit to WHM with exact spell parallels for most of its GCD heals... but playing AST feels nothing like playing WHM and a lot of that doesn't come from it's "identity" being cards but rather from the actual way it plays - faster cast times for greater mobility, more and more frequent oGCD heals as you level... those are the things that make AST feel good to play.

[Semirhage]

But why can't all the healers just have utility?

You'll get nothing but thunderous agreement from me.

But Square Enix and generous portions of this forum think giving WHM utility is rocket surgery beyond the feeble minds of poor overworked White Mages. One of the three "has" to have no utility. It's WHM's "identity" to have no utility. It's a design corner the healer dynamic is painted into through nothing more than sheer, total refusal to give WHM an identity. I've said ever since Shadowbringers dropped that THIS is the ugly elephant in the room that will prevent healing design from leaving the trap it's entered as long as it goes unaddressed. Because current healing design is the only logical conclusion to the contradictory paradigms that go into current healing design.

If A) All healers must be reasonably balanced with respect to healing and damage contribution, and B) WHM cannot ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever have utility because reasons, what conclusion is there to be had except stripping all other healers down to a level as simplistic as the one we've defined as the mandatory lowest common denominator?

If WHM bringing the uncontested most damage (like BLM and the caster DPS hierarchy does it) isn't acceptable, and WHM can't have utility (for...reasons only clear to Square Enix), then the healers are fundamentally unbalanceable unless they're all three boring healbots. *shrug*

[Veis_Alveare]

... then the healers are fundamentally unbalanceable unless they're all three boring healbots. *shrug*

I mean not that I find AST as boring as WHM right now, but the Sleeve Draw nerf has definitely made it more accessible. I'm not wholly against that in theory but I think doing things like giving more oGCDs earlier, or even Sleeve Draw earlier, could just better prepare people for complexity instead of simplifying at cap because people havent managed to learn how to use an ability over the course of their whole ShB leveling process.

[Liam_Harper]

But why can't all the healers just have utility? Like it doesn't take gigabrain coordination to press Chain Stratagem every two minutes, I think even the bad WHM players could cope if they had to use an occasional buff on someone. Give them Bravery and Faith with some % damage increase and nerf their personal dps a bit.

I'm not sure that would make WhM more fun though. Not that I'd disagree with it, I just don't think it's a major fix. Selfish dps can work, especially now fflogs goes by rdps. SAM is in the best spot it's ever been.

One problem with WhM is, being the no-utility healer of the bunch, you'd expect it to be great at raw dps and healing. You'd expect WhM to be the one to say "I got this, you focus on buffs/dps, I'll take the bulk of the heals. That's my specialty." In reality WhM is arguably the worst at taking bulk healing, with AST being the king, having ample strong oGCD's it can smoothly weave in, the highest potency aoe heal in Star, shields and even being solid at on-demand heals with a much cheaper Cure II, Medica II and Regen. WhM pays high taxes to heal. Even using a lily to heal costs a precious weave/movement tool and unexpected oGcDs cost 100 dps potency each due to the clip.

WHM's identity is strange in that Enix are stubborn it must have the weaknesses of being the least mobile class in the game, no shields worth speaking of and no utility but gives it nothing in exchange but simplicity and being good in dungeons.

I don't think it needs a full rework and high complexity, it's the most popular healer in the game so there's probably something in that. People like straightforward and effective. There's no juggling redraws for the same seal 3 times or clunky ghosting pets to manage. But it falls off badly in endgame because it lacks depth and feels awful to optimize and ends up being the trap healer for people who aren't that great at healing. It does need changes and they need to ease up on this triple weakness design they've latched onto because it makes it impossible to make the class fun.

[Veis_Alveare]

...fun.

God yes, to all of this post.

My bad if what I was saying came off as me claiming the addition if some arbitrary damage buffs would fix WHM, they certainly wouldn't. Even if they made Glare 400 potency and therefore placed WHM ridiculously ahead of the other healers in dps contribution the actual act of playing WHM would still be a chore. I'd do it, because I heal with a SCH who won't flex, but I'd hate it still.

I think the idea someone mentioned a while ago (or in another thread? I'm unsure) about giving healers (but in this case specifically and perhaps only WHM) an instant GCD filler that was around the same potency as Glare but costed more MP would be a really elegant bandaid to the situation we're in right now. It would take the strong MP economy of WHM and aim it at the biggest weakness it has (it's lack of movement and mobility) with a fun, flexible result.

It could even be expanded in the future to become WHM's gimmick. Give it a full cast bar DPS spell with a base potency of let's say 300 for now, a reduced cast time version (a la Malefic) with maybe a slight potency and MP cost gain and then an even more powerful and expensive version that's instant but that if you literally spam you'll just go OOM. Like 1k mp or something crazy.

I hate thinking "I'd love to give him DB for this buster but... Dia has 8 secs left so *shrug*" but that's where I am right now on WHM.