SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Volsungr]

Finally, all of my forum -beep- has paid off.

This is definitely a great direction they are taking/going into. hopefully the level will be synced with the rest of the rosters by the time next expansion come. we might not have it as a normal job now, but it's definitely a start. Kinda excited about the new spells though, since that means we're finally getting to stormblood.
what i'm actually scared with this development is by adding new skills, it will actually makes blue mage even more OP than it currently is and that is one thing that we want to avoid. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

I wonder if Ultimate contents Blue mage only achievement will be added... progging will be a thrill.

[JiSH]

I don't see them ever backing out from Blue Mage as a limited job if only because making it limited was the whole philosophy behind originally implementing it. I think people mistakenly believe that they made Blue Mage limited because they thought there was no way they could balance the job otherwise, when in reality it's the other way around. They made it limited so they didn't have to care about balance in the first place. Everything I've read from Yoshida about Blue Mage suggests that the motivation behind making it limited was specifically so they could get creative with its implementation and actions, rather than its unusual actions forcing them to make it limited. They were well aware of ways they could have implemented the job "normally", but their thought process was that if it was simply a normal job which didn't have any kind of special learning mechanics then why even make it Blue Mage.

I think a lot of people got confused but i'm pretty sure they mentioned something like "with Limited jobs, we don't have to spend resources on balancing the job"(because of the Blue Mage concept in the first place, tons of skills and everything), so they made it a limited job. They would probably reconsider it if enough players are asking them to revamp the system, because i've seen a lot of people complaining about it(this thread being one of it). Instead of just learning skills from obscure contents they can just tie the skill learning part to Job Quests, it'll make Blue Mage more in line with the other jobs.

My main concern with the Limited Job contents is that they will be probably another Limited Jobs down the line, and i don't want my favorite jobs being limited, i want to do normal contents with them, cutting out the job fantasy from it is fine, as long as they still keep the main concept intact, or even just at least aesthetically similar, i think it's still better than them being locked behind limited job wall.

[TThibi]

You are making a bold assumption that the limited format is complete in it's concept, it is not, far from it in fact. Limited jobs are very powerful, overpowered, don't need a limit breaker because the job is already broken. The recent Yokai event made this very plain to the population in a very obvious manner. There is a great deal SE can do with limited format, including special format pvp, broken dungeons, the Unreal trials, content above savage in difficulty and scope that jobs balanced for current level group content cannot cope with. The fact is that for this game to continue past the story into the future the games class system must evolve, the content must evolve limited job format is a very good way to provide that evolution. I think you already have seen the first 4 new limited jobs already in game Inkmage >>><<<Arcanist, Berserker>>><<<Marauder, Necromancer>>><<<Cleric, and Thief>>><<<Rogue, it will not be neccessary to level them, as we've been leveling the classes alongside the paralell jobs the whole time. Only one final push is needed to take the weak unused class and revamp it into an overpowered Limited job literally a quest away.

[Alysella]

This is definitely a great direction they are taking/going into. hopefully the level will be synced with the rest of the rosters by the time next expansion come. we might not have it as a normal job now, but it's definitely a start. Kinda excited about the new spells though, since that means we're finally getting to stormblood.
what i'm actually scared with this development is by adding new skills, it will actually makes blue mage even more OP than it currently is and that is one thing that we want to avoid. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

I wonder if Ultimate contents Blue mage only achievement will be added... progging will be a thrill.

It's certain that blue mage still getting their attention since they actually adding new skills and raising the level caps. Lets just hope that we can actually have the same level caps with other classes soon. Still wondering if ultimate with blue mage will be happening or not. But still, savage will be there to test new spells. The main concern is if the new spells are too overpowered and making it even harder for them to get blue mage out of the "limited job" zone or maybe we will get more role specific skills so that it's less wonky to play with in the "new" upcoming contents for blue mage

[Driavna]

It's certain that blue mage still getting their attention since they actually adding new skills and raising the level caps. Lets just hope that we can actually have the same level caps with other classes soon. Still wondering if ultimate with blue mage will be happening or not. But still, savage will be there to test new spells. The main concern is if the new spells are too overpowered and making it even harder for them to get blue mage out of the "limited job" zone or maybe we will get more role specific skills so that it's less wonky to play with in the "new" upcoming contents for blue mage

All that stuff was already developed. When Blue was announced they mentioned to already have 120+ skills prepared.

[SWB]

All that stuff was already developed. When Blue was announced they mentioned to already have 120+ skills prepared.

Yeah they said they were only releasing 50 before shadowbringers even though they had 60 finished so people "had time to figure the job out" so this is actually the first new update they've made for blue mage.

[Mariel_Crystallie]

Yeah they said they were only releasing 50 before shadowbringers even though they had 60 finished so people "had time to figure the job out" so this is actually the first new update they've made for blue mage.

yeah I've heard this before, things like "we've actually already developed 120 skills", and "we are only releasing 50 skills for now even though we already have 60 finished" kinda set the precedent or teasing that this whole limited job is only temporary and it could be lifted in the future. Which is a good thing looking as caster, healer, and range is the only one that only have 3 jobs on the role right now. we have 4 tanks and 4 melee at the moment and we just got our 3rd ranged this expansion. we already have additional 2 melees(2.4 and SB), 2 additional tanks(HW and SHB), 2 additional ranged(HW and SHB), but only 1 Healer(HW) and 1 Caster(SB) so if they really want to develop blue mage further next expansion is really probably the best timing.

[Driavna]

yeah I've heard this before, things like "we've actually already developed 120 skills", and "we are only releasing 50 skills for now even though we already have 60 finished" kinda set the precedent or teasing that this whole limited job is only temporary and it could be lifted in the future. Which is a good thing looking as caster, healer, and range is the only one that only have 3 jobs on the role right now. we have 4 tanks and 4 melee at the moment and we just got our 3rd ranged this expansion. we already have additional 2 melees(2.4 and SB), 2 additional tanks(HW and SHB), 2 additional ranged(HW and SHB), but only 1 Healer(HW) and 1 Caster(SB) so if they really want to develop blue mage further next expansion is really probably the best timing.

To me, if anything, is pointing that at some point blue will get "abandoned" (probably only getting their level cap raised and that's all) in favor of the new limited job.

[ADVSS]

To me, if anything, is pointing that at some point blue will get "abandoned" (probably only getting their level cap raised and that's all) in favor of the new limited job.

I'm on the camp with other posts in the past, if you see a job guage by 70, then i wouldnt roll with the abandoned part, personally. I think that limited status is just them hashing it out, they knew better when they said in the past things like RDM/BLU wouldnt make it because itd be too hard to implement the right way etc. Understandably the player base getting a little impatient due to what seem like touch ups or bandaids around the whole thing. But who knows, maybe you will finally get to do a relic through Eureka. We won't know till the patch hits sadly, and logically will probably be the part 2 patch as well I see alot of veins bulging in anticipation. Best thing they could do is let you queue solo in the BLU Duty Finder they added

[TeraTyrantShadic]

You are making a bold assumption that the limited format is complete in it's concept, it is not, far from it in fact. Limited jobs are very powerful, overpowered, don't need a limit breaker because the job is already broken. The recent Yokai event made this very plain to the population in a very obvious manner. There is a great deal SE can do with limited format, including special format pvp, broken dungeons, the Unreal trials, content above savage in difficulty and scope that jobs balanced for current level group content cannot cope with. The fact is that for this game to continue past the story into the future the games class system must evolve, the content must evolve limited job format is a very good way to provide that evolution. I think you already have seen the first 4 new limited jobs already in game Inkmage >>><<<Arcanist, Berserker>>><<<Marauder, Necromancer>>><<<Cleric, and Thief>>><<<Rogue, it will not be neccessary to level them, as we've been leveling the classes alongside the paralell jobs the whole time. Only one final push is needed to take the weak unused class and revamp it into an overpowered Limited job literally a quest away.

During the Yokai event they have made most FATE bosses immune to these one shot or flat damage spells after people were complaining about it, which is good because some people didn’t get credit for the FATE and when they arrived it went from 100% to dead. You have just proven that the Limited Job system fails to do what it has intended to do, separate Blue Mage from the normal content and prevent any upset.


There is nothing it can do with the Limited Job format and let’s go one by one.

PvP
PvP, it doesn’t matter what job you play there. What matters in PvP is your contribution to your team. You could be the worst player and die feeding the opposing team points (Every kill counts towards a point in Frontline as well so that’s a secondary objective). In PvP teamwork is another thing: you can be a lone Blue Mage and you still have to cast your spell like SMN, BLM and RDM. The weak or poison spells are instant while high damaging or certain aoe spells you have to cast normally. For Blue Mage in terms of bad breath it would be a cast because it's an AoE + Debuff, plus the debuff would be shortened while the poison can linger like BLM’s Thunder or SMN’s Poisons. BLM gets a pass with Thunder II & IV where it's an instant cast and aoe because it is a DoT and will only grant the Thundercloud Buff when the DoT deals a certain amount of damage and the potency of those 2 are weak compared to Blizzard and Fire IV. PvP mode doesn’t rely on jobs to be unique, I have played countless PvP games in ESO and WoW and in all honesty it is all objective based with death matches. You don’t need a specific job to create a new PvP mode. Look at Call of Duty, a different game but it didn’t rely on specific guns to make a new map mode, new map mode added when there are new mechanics involved that includes changing the maps up to fit the mechanics for every game in the series. As for WoW or ESO, when they added their new jobs nothing changed and yet they still add more PvP modes. Though now I am not too sure since I stopped playing WoW. ESO still has the same even with their new classes. So no, there is nothing new the Limited Job format can contribute to PvP.

Broken Dungeons
What do you mean by that, if you mean undersized party then we already have that you can que as an undersized party or with party finder but that ain’t a mechanic with Limited Job, it has long existed before the Limited Job system. If you mean solo-ing a dungeon while synced then you can, because at later levels you have most of the kit by then, though when starting out it isn’t a good idea especially when that dungeon has the skill you need. Plus it is a guarantee you’ll learn the spell if you’re in a synced group for that instance and not when you are solo. Even if you want to solo it synced and minimum item level, you take just as long if not longer on your own. If you mean explorer’s mode we’re getting that but only for 5.0 dungeons. Elaborate, you’re making no sense with this.

Unreal trials
No, as it stands unreal trial is just the exact same trial only this time it is boosted to the maximum level cap. So far we are getting the level cap of 70 for Blue Mage and in no way can a Level 70 participate in a Level 80 Duty. That is a fact that has been in the game since its birth, you cannot participate in Sastasha if you are not in a Level 15 in your current class/job.

Limited Job is more a de-evolution of the system rather than an innovation or evolution of it. If anything it goes against the entire franchise it prides itself on. The classic job system, one of the main selling points of FF games. Stories, jobs and battles are the main things that made Final Fantasy as a series to stand out from the rest. What you are seeing for Blue Mage is exclusive to Blue Mage only and is in no way related to Limited Job. Just like Ocean Fishing, it is an evolution of the job itself and not the normal job system. There was no adjustment made to the normal job system, neither was there for Limited Job. The only thing Limited job did was restrict Blue Mage from participating Duty Finder content normally like any of the other jobs; preventing participation of Deep Dungeon and Squadron which are both solo content; Stone, Sky, Sea; Eureka where you can possibly solo (It may change depending on 5.4 patch) and Hall of novice. Restriction is a sign of de-evolution, and since they now made most FATE bosses near immune to OP spells you may as well make it a normal job and let it participate normally.

Classes will forever be untouched; they had 3 expansions to work with the classes we have and nothing new from it and we have the opposite where they remove the ability to customise your additional skill using abilities/moves from the classes. Again the logic you try to show makes no sense that these classes/jobs you mention will be limited jobs. Nor does it show signs of it being the next limited job (I hope to god there will be no more limited jobs). If anything Berserker and Inkmage could be potential jobs alongside Necromancer and Chemist, because they can be balanced into a normal job and so can Blue Mage. If you think Blue Mage is overpowered then it is only in an All Blue Mage party composition than a normal party composition. If you try playing it in a normal party composition it’s viable, they could balance it and then it’ll be a fleshed out normal job.

To be honest, the Limited Job format is more for an implementation of a new system rather than implementation for new content. Which is very obvious, since the only thing we know from the Live Letter is there is an update for Blue Mage which is raising the Level Cap and Adding in new gear. This clearly shows it is adding more content for Blue Mage and not for the Limited Job system. If they were planning on adding anything new, then they would have mentioned something along the line of the Limited Job System would be having its own roulette which is far off from the truth. The Limited Job format is complete and it is a system housing jobs that 'Can't be balanced', which I don't buy into the excuse. To be clear there is no malicious intent behind this, it could have been a compromise for the time being but to say Blue Mage is overpowered is an overstatement. This is because most of these gimmicky or powerful spells won't work on final bosses of a dungeon, raids and trials. Now we have to guess for level 70 weather or not it can participate in ultimate fights as an all Blue Mage party composition or not.

The system (Limited Job system) was already completed when it was first released and there is nothing new improving the Limited Job System. We have level 60 and nothing new added to Limited Job rather we get more exclusive content for Blue Mage. If they were planning on improving the Limited Job system, don't you think by now they would have let it run DF normally or have its own DF? so if anything it just goes to show the Limited Job system is complete anything new or anything added is only directly related to Blue Mage. Therefore the Limited Job format is more of a system like the Normal Job format but worse and any content pertaining to Blue Mage is exclusively to Blue Mage itself.

An example would be if we replaced the Limited Job format with the Normal Job format, it would clearly show nothing is lost and this is because Blue Mage content is exclusively meant for Blue Mage and no other jobs. Even if we put every job under the Limited Job Format, a Paladin cannot participate in the Blue Mage content because Masked Carnival, Blue Mage Log and its achievement all requires you to be a Blue Mage. I have said before and I'll keep saying it...

System ≠ Content
Limited Job System ≠ Blue Mage Content
Normal Job System ≠ Main Story Quest line, Job Quest, Side Story, Deep Dungeon, Duty Finder.
There is no correlation between these contents to a system. All these two systems both Normal and Limited Job are housing the jobs into categories and that is it. If you remove either, no Duty Finder, Deep Dungeon, Side story, Main Story Quest line, Exclusive content or anything in the base game will be removed. It'll all still be there. All Normal and Limited Job do is act as a system to house the jobs and the Limited Job system is doing a terrible one by restricting Blue Mage from any normal content even in content that can be soloed.

Another thing, it isn't Overpowered. If it was, people would have been able to solo the Alexander savage raid without a need for a group, but here we are. The Morbol Mount achievement requires you to party up with 7 other Blue Mages synced. Not just that but the spells it has shows it is slowly going into group content territory. Spells like Angel Whisper (Can only resurrect dead allies and not yourself), Cactgaurd (Reducing a party member's damage and cannot be applied to yourself), Aetherial Mimicry (Allowing you to select 3 different roles), Frog Legs (Provoking, useful in tank swapping), Avail (The damage you take is transferred to the targeted party member). How can you apply these spells to Masked Carnival because they require you to be in a group or with someone in the party (except for Aetherial Mimicry).

Blue Mage Content = Exclusively to Blue Mage
Ocean Fishing = Exclusively to Fisher
These examples are practically the same with the only difference is that Fisher is in the Normal Job system. Plus it just shows exclusive content works in Normal Job. So you don't need the Limited Job system to keep Masked Carnival or Blue Mage Log. They can still have it as a normal job. If you wanna apply this to the other jobs having their own exclusive content, they could. However it would be better to have more jobs in the game than content that is only exclusive to Blue Mage. Look, the exclusive content for Blue Mage will stay no doubt, but you can move it as a Normal Job and it'll still be there. They aren't gonna erase something they worked on. Limited Job on the other hand however can be erased since it doesn't contribute anything but restricting a job from participating in Duty Finder and that is the only purpose it has.