Is FFXIV hinting Berserker, Necromancer, and Chemist next expansion?

[SinisterJoints]

Necromancer and Chemist I think is possible. Primarily Chemist.

Berserker I'd say is a hard no. Very little would differentiate them from Warrior.

Now if they want to add a melee class that uses cast times 100% and become a literal melee BLM I'd be all up for that.

I really want Necromancer very badly but I won't be sad if it never shows up.

It wouldn't be a melee then would it? Cast times? ew

[Shougun]

I don't really agree with the whole we didn't have thief because it was evil therefore we can't have necromancer thing, I don't think that's based on all strong rules at all (rules that should, have, or will be followed). However I can see having necromancer unlikely because necromancer is necromancer lol. For example we've Ninja which is an assassin, that's pretty evil- it is I think a bit silly to say thief is bad therefore we can't have it but wait incoming assassin. "But our assassin only kills bad people" and that would be my second point that a lot of people are working under very conservative very restricted creative levels when discussing potential concepts (particularly restricted when it's not an idea they care for in the beginning). Thief could /also/ be the robinhood. We have an entire city that were largely ex (or even present) thieves and cons. Our dark knight can optionally be a huge prick too with some fairly dark moments lol.

On a more technical note Yoshida has said just think of rogues as thieves, so they didn't add thieves because they are evil is not the case (technically they 'basically' did add Thief, in Yoshida's words below)- they didn't add thief because they needed to budget their creative powers and work within their class system (as resources are not infinite).

Quote:

Secrets of Eorzea : Many players were very disappointed to see the name “Rogue” and not “Thief” in the E3 announcement. Respecting the lore of the game was understood but is it really the end of our hopes to see the “Thief” one day in FFXIV: ARR? Maybe, like the black mage who had a bad reputation in the history of FFXIV, the Thief might become the second job of the Rogue class?

Naoki Yoshida : It was a really, really tough decision for us as well because we are long time Final Fantasy fans. There was a heated debate internally as well to make this decision. But Final Fantasy is full of classic fans like myself, but we need to think about those new to the series as well, so it needs to make sense. In Final Fantasy XIV, every class has a guild, and just because we want to have that traditional role, we want it to make sense with the in-game lore. Especially when we want the game to run for ten years or longer, we need to make sure the relationship between the classes and jobs make sense.

We didn’t want to break the lore by naming classes based on our personal feelings, we wanted it to make sense with the story. So if you see Rogue in game, just in your mind, replace it with Thief. The class and the job and the way it works is really close to Thief, so just think of it as that. Thief won’t be coming as a name. In the story, it will be explained that these Rogues were at one time called Thieves. So it is definitely clear that Rogue equals Thief in the game.

(Because it was a class and not a job it had to have a guild, which lead to some of the name issues, now jobs don't have that issue since they don't need guilds and our new jobs rarely have a class these days so really 'not an issue' in terms of name).

The problem with necromancer isn't that it has some sort of dark side - even being a bit 'silly' with crazy magic isn't forbidden in this game as it's a core lore point in a recent expansion ('but that was non-optional' one might say and I would point out they can do that for the job too, like they did to your soul shattering in FFXI), the problem is raising the dead in a game world where that is extremely sacrilegious. Now some people could just stop there and be like 'welp I guess it's dead in the water', but there ARE ways you could even dance around stuff like that. Like if you wanted to make some twists in the design or narrow the functions of the job the WoL practices, for example if you only raised monsters or only used monster essence and refused to enslave humanoids . That does produce something a bit like beastmaster but if you shifted it to perhaps more void like creatures it'd function well enough. "BUT VoId Is BaD!". Again, you can figure it out. Shattering your soul is probably pretty bad too but FFXI made it a concept for blue mage. That also ignores that necromancers are not always or simply just raising the dead, so yo could take it another direction and still be a necromancer (or a subset of that group) or they could take a huge influence from that concept so it's like 75% necro but give it some new paint and theme, not technically a necromancer anymore but much of the spirit (lol) could be maintained. "Can't give you classic dead raising necro exactly but we could create a branch of necromancy that focuses on X". Many possibilities and options.

The ultimate note is just that I see a sincere lack of problem solving and nailing all the walls inside the thought box when it comes to ideas someone isn't really for "CAN'T BE DONE, IMPOSSIBLE" I see people almost scream, while they try very little to not at all in thinking out the problem. Of course if you don't think then it can't be done lol, "I've been presented a problem and I refuse to solve it, therefore it's impossible".. So I'm just saying if SE really wanted to I'm sure they could make it happen and not have to retcon to do it either. "Okay so they might find some excuses here and there so it's not evil but it would still be taboo!" well yeah but I think that's half the reason some people ask for the job- they want to be taboo. Now the question is do they want to do all that extra thinking to make the job lol, is there an actual value to the game (within and without) that makes the challenge worthwhile. I believe the chance they do necro is a bit low due to all of the above but that it could exist and especially if someone on the team really enjoys the concept.

Generally I just don't like people shutting others down because it's something they don't care for and have put nearly zero effort into thinking around the issues (or sometimes you see people put effort in shutting it down because it's not what they want and we do only get a limited number of jobs each expansion). Far more interesting to see people show what they want then shutdown what they don't want with limited problem solving (that isn't to say people lack intelligence that is to say people are not using their skill sets when shutting things down because they don't really want it in the first place, choosing to deactivate tools to make it seem impossible rather than buckling up the shoes and pulling out their compass- especially since many of the people I see have proven their creativity and problem solving skills elsewhere, particularly when the concept was of interest to them lol).

Just for a clarity sake since I spent time defending something that isn't my priority lol- personally not significantly invested into the idea, nor am I particularly invested into Chemist either, but I do think it would be weird in an interesting way and would certainly raise my eyebrows and curiosity higher than chemist would (simply because I'd be like 'oh how did they do it, did they have fun with it!?" like Dark Knight I also feel these jobs can have extra fun stories). My desired jobs would be more in line with a battle mage (inverse of Red Mage) like a Golbez or Sauron with might and ferocity (which I've occasionally based off the idea of 'Geoknight', also seen in FFXVI's trailer in a sense), or a transformation job ideally dark like Vincent from FF7 / Dirge (chaos materia) / Yuri from Shadow Hearts / Dante from DMC, or like forbidden primal magic with hints of Terra Branford from FFVI and a bit in the new FFXVI game.

It wouldn't be a melee then would it? Cast times? ew

I think it's cool on Samurai, but I also think SE could play with that idea more. Like for example on Samurai I believe you should be able to cancel out the cast early and it would just do marginally less damage (enough that 100% cast is preferred, not enough to ruin your numbers forever if you messed it up lol- can leave jump and esc as a way to true cancel the spell still just in case someone needs that option), rather than kill the whole cast. When bard had it, that too (of course the community prefers the machinegun bard so shouldn't add it back that's for sure lol). Or like black mage could use leyline while casting, meaning they could teleport back to their leyline mid cast without interrupting their cast.

Some ideas I've mixed with Geoknight, void mage, and Eldritch healer, were concepts like being able to add your cast to a construct- meaning you might create two void spheres (or elemental pylons) and have them begin a cast and then continue to perform some other sort of melee attacks at the same time (among other interactions with the pylons). So you could have cast times but also largely not lol. Perhaps titan punch someone into a gaol that has a cast time to explode.

[MagiusNecros]

So is thief, but they thought that was morally sus enough to not include it so I can't see them doing necromancer.

Thief is Rogue. Sorry to sink your battleship.

[wereotter]

I want it for that reason though.

Necromancy isn't inherently evil. It's all about how you use it.

The lore of the world of FFXIV is such that necromancy actively hurts Hydalyn, so in the case of the player character, necromancery IS inherently evil. We literally have content devoted to this with Edda. That's not even to mention the issues of censorship of the job in countries like China or Yoshida stating that certain jobs like thief or necromancer are too dark for the hero of light to fill.


That part said. Berserker (as others have said) is Warrior in this game. Ink Mages are Arcanists without the carbuncle. The only teaser I could see being a new job is Apothecary. We are due a new healing job, and many have been hoping for a less magically inclined healing job, not to mention that Chemist was the basis of all magic jobs in Final Fantasy Tactics, making it a good fit for the role, not to mention that there simply aren't many other healing focused jobs in the series to pull from. That's not to say that all of these teasers aren't just red herrings and Square won't just make up new jobs or add something unexpected. With no tee shirts from Yoshida yet for us to speculate off of, we're still all just stumbling blind.

[kaynide]

I want it for that reason though.

Necromancy isn't inherently evil. It's all about how you use it.

Necromancer is most certainly dead on arrival due to Chinese market. I went into a bit more detail in the links I posted earlier, but basically all undead assets are reskinned for the Chinese version, so it would be a huge amount of work that would need a huge amount of overhaul. Not worth the time investment.

Again, I think the bosses in heroes gauntlet were a tongue and cheek joke towards jobs they will never add.

[Shougun]

Yoshida stating that certain jobs like thief or necromancer are too dark for the hero of light to fill.

Source?

We have source that he says Rogue is Thief. We also have ninja which is an assassin, so I think it be a bit silly that he would say that but I'm doubting he actually did say that as well.

Necromancer of course I'll leave as a challenge, not that I think it's impossible but certainly 1,000% darker than a thief or assassin lol. Personally see the rate possibility go from exceptionally low if it's undead focused to fair (fair meaning just about as likely as any other random uncommon job) if you go more into communing with the dead or soul magic sort of concepts. Poison, soul, whatever, just not bringing back human zombies (at which point you'd give it a different name but the core concepts would carry on, like Thief is Rogue in many ways and as Yoshida has said, it's just not a job so you can't end game 'thief' / rogue lol).

[Fynlar]

I'm starting to get the idea that people who want Berserker just really, really wish warrior was relegated to dps role.

Which is still kind of silly, because if this happened (which it won't), if anything Warrior would remain as is and Berserker would become the actual DPS class.

[Darkpaw]

Why is it necromancy is only talked about in the terms of raising the dead when a version of necromancy already exists in this game that we have seen in this very expansion.

Soul magic, while it wouldn’t be a hundred percent accurate depiction of a necromancer, you could work around a lot of the negative associations of necromancy by creating a job that uses soul magic, using raw aether to create constructs that amplify your own attacks (rather than summoner pets which i know is going to be brought up.) something more akin to Personas from the persona series. Not raising the dead so much as manipulating various souls and soul-esque energy to attack with.. just a passing shower thought.

Would also make sense with Alisaie’s new training with Beq Lugg (sp?)

[aiqa]

Considering the 5.3 story line I'd expect an apothecary class.

[GucciSan]

Source?

We have source that he says Rogue is Thief. We also have ninja which is an assassin, so I think it be a bit silly that he would say that but I'm doubting he actually did say that as well.

Necromancer of course I'll leave as a challenge, not that I think it's impossible but certainly 1,000% darker than a thief or assassin lol. Personally see the rate possibility go from exceptionally low if it's undead focused to fair (fair meaning just about as likely as any other random uncommon job) if you go more into communing with the dead or soul magic sort of concepts. Poison, soul, whatever, just not bringing back human zombies (at which point you'd give it a different name but the core concepts would carry on, like Thief is Rogue in many ways and as Yoshida has said, it's just not a job so you can't end game 'thief' / rogue lol).

It's hard to find a source for his comment but yes, he's said that it wouldn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint to have the WoL, savior of worlds also be trained as and considered a Thief that robs people. Rogue is Thief in everything but name and lore but Rogues aren't Thieves and that's an important distinction to make.

And the problem with Necro is that it's not a "Final Fantasy" Job. Sure necromancers are a common trope in fantasy but when many people think of a playable Job or Class in Final Fantasy Necromancer is most likely never going to be on that list. We've had numerous encounters with different Necromancers on why it's never a good idea; even if someone were to approach your character to tell them that there's a way to do it 'safely' that just involves souls the logical answer based on your experiences would be a hard no. There's no feasible way to include a playable Necro that doesn't break lore or suspension of disbelief.