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  1. #1
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    I don't think Emet and Elidibus are still alive on the 8th calamity world.

    I suppose it depends on how exactly the timeline split worked. I'm still kind of picturing the doomed timeline as a pseudo-shard, with it essentially being a copy of the source as it was when the tower tardis'd out, in which case there would be no Emet or Elidibus copies there unless they happened to be floating about on the Source at that moment.
    They've probably got a few minor Ascians knocking about to deal with, but for the most part I reckon they're both on their own, and also left alone.

    Or the whole thing might be a more traditional time-travel split timeline though, where everything (including shards and ascians and voids, etc.) gets duplicated at the point of the change. In which case, well, we all know how much the writers love undoing deaths...
    It's definitely a full timeline with all the shards together. It's not some stub timeline split off from reality - it would have been the one and only reality if G'raha hadn't travelled back in time to create the second path for us. The whole reason the bad timeline went bad is that the First got rejoined to it.

    The Ascians are still out there somewhere, yes. But so, most likely, is the reincarnated Warrior of Light. And even without the WoL they have the knowledge of the Ascians' existence and what they're trying to do.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Morningstar1337's Avatar
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    Aurora Aura
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    Exodus
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    Thaumaturge Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    It's definitely a full timeline with all the shards together. It's not some stub timeline split off from reality - it would have been the one and only reality if G'raha hadn't travelled back in time to create the second path for us. The whole reason the bad timeline went bad is that the First got rejoined to it.

    The Ascians are still out there somewhere, yes. But so, most likely, is the reincarnated Warrior of Light. And even without the WoL they have the knowledge of the Ascians' existence and what they're trying to do.
    Which makes it all the more likely that they'd try to lay low while shard prepping until they fade into myth. After all the survivors have the equivalent of wanted posters for them now, and as such it might bein their best intrests to wait until people forget about them and Eorzea/Garlemald and let them join the list of long lost and forgotten civs
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
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    Tal Young
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    Cerberus
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    It's definitely a full timeline with all the shards together. It's not some stub timeline split off from reality - it would have been the one and only reality if G'raha hadn't travelled back in time to create the second path for us. The whole reason the bad timeline went bad is that the First got rejoined to it.
    You seem very confident. The lack of definitive answer to how exactly the doomed world fits into the overall cosmology, if it does at all, was the most annoying aspect of the story to me.

    Is there some information I'm missing? Nothing I read really gave me any reason to believe everything that exists in the wider scheme of things carried over. Especially not Emet, Elidibus and reincarnations of Azem.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jandor; 09-22-2020 at 05:54 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    You seem very confident. The lack of definitive answer to how exactly the doomed world fits into the overall cosmology, if it does at all, was the most annoying aspect of the story to me.

    Is there some information I'm missing? Nothing I read really gave me any reason to believe everything that exists in the wider scheme of things carried over. Especially not Emet, Elidibus and reincarnations of Azem.
    It just... had to. It's logical. It's a timeline equal to ours and it can't not have all of reality intact.

    Perhaps the idea that time runs at different speeds in our Source and First confuses people and makes them think of the shards as "different timelines" but that's not the same thing at all - they're still part of a single linked reality and affect each other. By contrast, the bad future timeline is completely separated and affected by a set of shards that are not ours.

    There is a Source and a First in our timeline. There is a Source and a First in the other timeline - or at least there was until it rejoined to the Source. The Future Ironworks team could deduce which shard had been affected, which implies the others are there to be observed.

    Again, the other timeline is equally "reality" - it would be the only version of events to exist if there was no split. There is simply no way for the shards to not exist alongside it, unless they just spontaneously vanish.

    The Source is not a reality to itself - the Source and shards together make up reality.
    (10)
    Last edited by Iscah; 09-22-2020 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
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    Tal Young
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    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    It just... had to. It's logical. It's a timeline equal to ours and it can't not have all of reality intact.

    Perhaps the idea that time runs at different speeds in our Source and First confuses people and makes them think of the shards as "different timelines" but that's not the same thing at all - they're still part of a single linked reality and affect each other. By contrast, the bad future timeline is completely separated and affected by a set of shards that are not ours.

    There is a Source and a First in our timeline. There is a Source and a First in the other timeline - or at least there was until it rejoined to the Source. The Future Ironworks team could deduce which shard had been affected, which implies the others are there to be observed.

    Again, the other timeline is equally "reality" - it would be the only version of events to exist if there was no split. There is simply no way for the shards to not exist alongside it, unless they just spontaneously vanish.

    The Source is not a reality to itself - the Source and shards together make up reality.
    I know the world and the shards are all one linked reality with linked aether and one life-stream and such, I'm saying that I reckon the 8th calamity world functions similarly to a shard and is still linked to our overall main reality.

    There is past precedent for worlds being split off & there is precedent for them being at a different point in their own respective timeline, as far as I know there isn't a precedent for time travel resulting in a brand new separate timeline. When Alex was flexing about his ability to spank Bahamut and prevent the 7th calamity I don't recall it being implied that him doing so would result in our Bahamut ravaged world just carrying on as if he hadn't bothered.

    I think the split is less a traditional time travel story type split, instead it's a more traditional (to this universe at least) 'split a bit off the main world' split.
    The Alex/Omega-Frankentower split the doomed world from the source as it jumped out, the tower rewound time for everything else while the 8th calamity world continued forward, the tower blew its engines out from the strain of doing all this, landed on the first, the events of ShB occurred and the course of events was changed. Or something like that at least.

    I reckon if we were to ever get an updated source and shards lesson by someone in the know it'd go something like: "Here is the Source and the remaining shards, and this weird thing just off to the side over here is some kind of pseudo-shard manifested by a poorly understood & barely functional hacked together dimension hopping time machine in order to make sure Graha's shenanigans didn't result in a paradox."

    Something like this:


    That's my theory anyway. It all seems fairly logical to me. Maybe it's wrong, but I like it so I'll stick with it for now
    (1)
    Last edited by Jandor; 09-22-2020 at 11:03 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    Vicious Zvahl
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    Excalibur
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    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    You seem very confident. The lack of definitive answer to how exactly the doomed world fits into the overall cosmology, if it does at all, was the most annoying aspect of the story to me.

    Is there some information I'm missing? Nothing I read really gave me any reason to believe everything that exists in the wider scheme of things carried over. Especially not Emet, Elidibus and reincarnations of Azem.
    Everything in the doomed timeline is exactly the same as our timeline up until the point where Thancred gets soul snatched in ours. In the doomed timeline, Emet-selch and Elidibus are doing just fine. Unless either of them were dumb enough to get engulfed by Black Rose. They likely went back to sleep to wait until the world recovers.
    (4)

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    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore