DRK enmity gen vs other tanks

[DRKoftheAzure]

If in any content the MT is getting killed in the first 30 seconds, then that is an issue with skill, not an issue with gameplay mechanics.
Again, enmity combos don't add anything to the game in anyway outside of being fluff.

Am I MT? Enmity combo because it gives me the exact same thing.
Am I OT? Enmity combo after my other combo...even though this is the exact same thing as turning tank stance on.

You're literally complaining that you'd like to have a 4,5,6 combo instead of doing 1,2,3 and turning your tank stance on after.
Your solution is simply creating additional buttons for the sake of it, not because it legitimately improves gameplay in anyway.

Melee positionals add gameplay because they also reward proper positioning.
Enmity combos don't reward anything to you.
All they do is add fluff for the sake of it, which is why they were done away with and why many MMOs don't even bother with such a thing.

Let alone your suggestion makes it so that if the OT is not MTing, then they are suffering a significant DPS loss, which means more tuning has to be done so that the OT isn't punished for not MTing and using the main enemity generator.

You're saying its illogical but your solutions only serve to create problems that have already been solved.

Alright let's remove the enmity toggle then.

[Leiron]

Alright let's remove the enmity toggle then.

I mean...if you're just going to be dramatic because I am not agreeing with you why say anything at all?

[DRKoftheAzure]

I mean...if you're just going to be dramatic because I am not agreeing with you why say anything at all?

I am one of those people who LOVE working for the enmity I generate.

Right now all I am asking for is DRK to have enmity combos, and if DRK need damage penalty back on their tank stance as well as the 20% damage reduction(which would actually make DRK not suck as much when main tanking because of Dark Mind) then fine, as long they have something that allows them to ignore damage penalty.

Right now the toggle system is only fun on GNB and PLD(moreso GNB than PLD thanks to GNB Powder Gauge and I think PLD needs Shield Swipe to come back with Shield Bash being an oGCD but have it's stun removed).

DRK and WAR are a snooze fest with the current toggle system and need either a separate toggle system to go with current toggle system(DPS stance basically though this would only be for WAR like in ARR-Stormblood) which would require a button that works basically like ASTs Neutral Sect + WARs Unchained of old, or enmity combos with the old toggle system (ARR-Stormblood tank stances) with a button that boosts damage dealt by a certain % on a cooldown.

[Yeol]

the case is simple: DRK does less DPS than other tanks, so it generates less emnity.

While the idea is not completely wrong, it's not entirely true.

If we bring 2 tanks in tank stance, the one with the highest burst & opener will hold aggro.
Then as the burn phase ends, the tank with the highest sustain DPS will take aggro.
When you enter the burst/re-opener phase again, the tank with the highest burst will take aggro again.
And the cycle repeats.

An example of this is Stromblood BRD.
BRD had lower DPS compared to other damage dealers, but it had a very high opener and burst. With the way old tanks used to play, BRD could easily pull aggro if they did not use Refresh and Tactician (An ability that used to drop their aggro by half).

With tank stance rework, the same logic applies here, but on tanks this time.

[Leiron]

I am one of those people who LOVE working for the enmity I generate.

Right now all I am asking for is DRK to have enmity combos, and if DRK need damage penalty back on their tank stance as well as the 20% damage reduction(which would actually make DRK not suck as much when main tanking because of Dark Mind) then fine, as long they have something that allows them to ignore damage penalty.

Right now the toggle system is only fun on GNB and PLD(moreso GNB than PLD thanks to GNB Powder Gauge and I think PLD needs Shield Swipe to come back with Shield Bash being an oGCD but have it's stun removed).

DRK and WAR are a snooze fest with the current toggle system and need either a separate toggle system to go with current toggle system(DPS stance basically though this would only be for WAR like in ARR-Stormblood) which would require a button that works basically like ASTs Neutral Sect + WARs Unchained of old, or enmity combos with the old toggle system (ARR-Stormblood tank stances) with a button that boosts damage dealt by a certain % on a cooldown.

It doesn't make it less of a snooze fest to hit 1,2,3 and then 4,5,6.
You're still a slave to the GCD on both WAR and PLD.
GNB and DRK both have plenty of oGCD stuff which is why they are more interesting to play.
Enmity combos have nothing to do with making them play any better.
Let alone that the damage penalty on tank stances was removed and the damage of tanks changed accordingly to get rid of stance dancing.
Your suggestions just don't address the issues that you are complaining about right now.

If you want tanks to be less boring, then they need more oGCDs and more dynamic play style. Giving an enmity combo doesn't do anything because combos are slaves to the GCD anyway.

[Lammas]

Dude, there are times were I WISH I still had enmity combos(as well wishing enmity combos were DPS neutral) because there is still the chance that the main tank is going to die because, once again either the main tank forgot to pop cooldowns, ate too many vuln stacks, the healer forgot to pay attention to the main tanks HP bar or was busy keeping a DPS alive, or any combination of those things I just listed.

If you don't like stance dancing or enmity combos, go play a DPS or healer.

Try progging savage.
Also what does any of that even have to do with enmity combos?
Also if you don't like tank stances, go play a DPS or healer. Great argument, right?

DRK need damage penalty back on their tank stance as well as the 20% damage reduction(which would actually make DRK not suck as much when main tanking because of Dark Mind) then fine, as long they have something that allows them to ignore damage penalty.

Last time I was here you were complaining that DRK doesn't do enough damage but now your suggesting that they need to be gutted with a -20% damage penalty... immediately followed by wanting to bypass said penalty... what?
Considering who I'm talking to I know it's a lost cause to even say this because I know you're immune to the power of facts but DRK is pretty damn good on the front side of bosses. Where exactly is that fight where you're grasping for extra mitigation so badly? Not to mention mitigating a raidwide (tend to be magical) with Dark Mind is one of the best common uses for it if you're taking autos too. Not so much if you're on the bosses butt getting topped up with AOEs with the rest of the group.

Right now the toggle system is only fun on GNB and PLD(moreso GNB than PLD thanks to GNB Powder Gauge and I think PLD needs Shield Swipe to come back with Shield Bash being an oGCD but have it's stun removed).

What are you even talking about? How is it fun on GNB and PLD but not the others, when it's the exact same thing used in the exact same way? What does GNB gauge even have to do with this? This doesn't make any sense.

[DRKoftheAzure]

To Leiron; sometimes that one or two extra GCD buttons to make a combo can make or break class/job identity. Just like how you feel about not wanting to remove beast gauge aura on because it will the identity of WAR. In fact the removal of Skull Sunder and Butcher's Block GCDs that WAR also killed what visual battle identity that it had, much like the removal of Spinning Slash and Power Slash really killed DRK for me.

And to Lammas; I tried progging savage on multiple occasions, and it felt horrible. I also don't like just the tank stance on DRK because I think that not ALL tanks just need the ONLY THE TOGGLE. If I played either DPS or Healer then the ques would be longer than they already are. And I don't main healer, but EVEN I HATE the healer changes this expansion. The only DPS I consider fun enough to play, and this personal preference, are DRG, SAM, DNC, and RDM and those DPS classes outside DNC feel like they are missing maybe one or two things that would make them feel complete but that's just me. DNC has Ranged DPS tax so that's why I don't play it. And you only cherry picking to a few things to make an argument just to try and make yourself cool(I tried this too and I looked lame afterwards) and that's why I at least include the entire context with "reply with quote" and respond to what I can respond to efficiently and accordingly.

And right now I don't have the energy to to go for a full "reply with quote" either of you due to IRL stuff... but...

Considering who I'm talking to I know it's a lost cause to even say this because I know you're immune to the power of facts but DRK is pretty damn good on the front side of bosses. Where exactly is that fight where you're grasping for extra mitigation so badly? Not to mention mitigating a raidwide (tend to be magical) with Dark Mind is one of the best common uses for it if you're taking autos too. Not so much if you're on the bosses butt getting topped up with AOEs with the rest of the group.

Dark Mind sucks in dungeons because Auto-attacks are mostly physical damage, ESPECIALLY when leveling it for the first time. And the The Blackest Night argument falls flat on it's face because of how lackluster its bonus effects are. I don't care how good against magic damage Dark Mind is or how powerful the mitigation The Blackest Night is, if their other effects clash with the job identity of DRK from not only previous games but the effects also clash with the tank identity, then the effects need to be reworked or outright removed because Dark Mind feels more like button bloat than anything else really and The Blackest Night needs to NOT cut into MP usage because the devs want DRK to be an resource dumping class for DPS rotation.

[Canadane]

Unless you're having a tank-off, there shouldn't be any problem.
Enmity generation is ahead of all non-tank classes, and in dual-tank situations you work with your partner, not against him. Shirk as needed, provoke as needed, using your tank stance as needed.
The only issue I can see is if you really wanted to be front and centre for like an S rank hunt mob or something like that which doesn't actually matter.

[Absurdity]

The only issue I can see is if you really wanted to be front and centre for like an S rank hunt mob or something like that which doesn't actually matter.

Haha Inner Release Tomahawk goes brrr...sorry, just wanted to get that out of my brain.

[Lammas]

I'm honestly not sure what part I should've quoted for that to make sense. I picked the parts that I commented on and left out the portion about some additional toggle stuff that was unrelated.

You want 20 % damage reduction tank stance back with damage penalty while gaining some ability to negate said penalty. Meanwhile in the game right now where the old tank stances are gone we have a trait that gives you 20 % damage reduction without damage penalty which seems to be exactly what you want.
You have the tools to deal with the main tank dying in the game right now without needing enmity combos to deal with that situation. They were removed because they were highly redundant and the current system works a lot better.

The comment about progging was genuine as that is exactly where you'll run into those things you seem to be longing after; dying to lack of cooldowns or lack of heals because something unexpected happed either to dps or healers or too many vuln stacks etc. That is where you get to plan your cooldowns and look for optimizations in your tanking plan. It's just not a big thing in dungeons or normal mode trials / raids which are the same as ever.

Also the point was, that if your suggestion to someone enjoying current tank stances is to go play dps or healer instead then why shouldn't you who obviously doesn't enjoy current tanking take your own advice. Would make more sense to me as it's not like it's going to fundamentally change until 6.0 if even then. Those were your own words.

As for dungeons the only 2 that I can think of where DRK has more trouble compared to others are Bardams and Doma. The jump in defensive stats in gear at 65 is HUGE so unless you stop to gather full sets at that point, the lack of TBN / Mind being magic only hurts there. Anything before that is easier than it used to be thanks to Arm's Lenght and AOE Reprisal being added to the mix and mobs generally dying faster than before. The biggest problem in pre-ShB leveling dungeons for me is lack of mana regeneration in AOE which could be solved in multiple ways but for now it is what it is. I wouldn't mind Dark Mind changing but I'm also perfectly fine with it as it is.

I still don't understand what your problem with TBN is. It cuts into your MP to give you the exact same thing that you'd use during that resource dump for the exact same cost. Calling a basically free 25 % shield lackluster is beyond me.

Anyways, you keep doing you I guess.