New crafted gear should be the same iLVL as previous raid tiers BiS, not better.

[Liam_Harper]

There was a time I would have grabbed the pitchfork and argued strongly against this.

But now? Sure, it'd make the crafted set worthless. But crafting is already worthless, it's so easy it's a joke and the endgame Master Recipe sets are practically free handouts. They've lost all purpose. You can't make crafting faceroll easy but still have it able to churn out sets that are better than practically everything below Savage. Since they've decided crafting must be accessible and are unlikely to change stance on that, then I agree it's only fair to nerf the crafted set to an ilv respective of the effort put in.

[Wyakin]

i actually found no reason to run any of the normal edens verse raids because they dropped 480 gear and the crafted was also 480. so those normal raids were obsolete to me on launch. kinda strange how they did that.

I do the same as you, normal mode once To unlock savage and craft gear that’s equally or in most cases better than normal mode gear. Never set foot in normal mode again.

[SnowVix]

That was the way things were up to 3.2 when they changed ilevel calculations and gear release patterns after Gordias pretty much destroyed the raid scene in 3.0/3.1. It took nearly 5 weeks after Gordias normal mode was released to be geared enough for Gordias Savage which was released 2 weeks after normal. Prior to Midas the best crafted gear was equivalent to uncapped tomestone gear. Starting with Midas the best crafted gear was slightly superior to normal mode raid gear.

Quoting to agree with you. TC's suggestion would create another Gordias and would put raiding on life support, because a world first race that takes 5 weeks will bore everyone, raiding will be much less accessible to people who want to start late in the tier for whatever reason (financial, time, etc), and all in all, just won't be great for the continued longevity of the game.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Quoting to agree with you. TC's suggestion would create another Gordias and would put raiding on life support, because a world first race that takes 5 weeks will bore everyone, raiding will be much less accessible to people who want to start late in the tier for whatever reason (financial, time, etc), and all in all, just won't be great for the continued longevity of the game.

Gordias' problem was more that the tuning was to high and to tight. A1S through A4S were tuned assuming i190 for A1S and i205 for A4S with a max ilevel of i210. Uncapped "entry" tomestone gear was i180 at that time. This meant that players needed +10 to +25 ilevels over "entry" gear (+0 to +15 for normal mode raid gear). The i200/i210 capped tomestone gear was job locked which meant that switching jobs within role came with a severe loss in ilevels.

With Midas they started tuning Savage expecting +5 ilevels over uncapped gear for part 1 and +15 for parts 3 and 4 and crafted a +10 over uncapped. With Omega they started tuning part 1 to uncapped and parts 3/4 to +10 over uncapped.

As long as the ilevel tuning doesn't really change, all changing crafted gear ilevels from +10 over uncapped tomestone gear to equal to tomestone gear would be to extend the world first race from the current 48 to 72 hours to 8 to 15 days due to gear locks.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I don't believe crafted should be nerfed because a lot of people are still just hitting 80 and they don't want to be wearing 78 gear in current content when everyone is so far ahead. you can essentially buy a full set for 500k right now and not do poopoo damage if you're new. and also the whole point is to let raiders use this gear to go in fast. what would they have entered e5s in...460 stuff??LOL
and some people just dont raid too and that's fine.

In theory, Raiders could have entered E5S in the i470 BiS gear they ended patch 5.1 in, but that gear was mostly meaningless save for vanity because they almost immediately upgraded to i480 pentamelded gear when 5.2 launched.

[ForteNightshade]

There was a time I would have grabbed the pitchfork and argued strongly against this.

But now? Sure, it'd make the crafted set worthless. But crafting is already worthless, it's so easy it's a joke and the endgame Master Recipe sets are practically free handouts. They've lost all purpose. You can't make crafting faceroll easy but still have it able to churn out sets that are better than practically everything below Savage. Since they've decided crafting must be accessible and are unlikely to change stance on that, then I agree it's only fair to nerf the crafted set to an ilv respective of the effort put in.

Ironically. maybe then they'd realize how much they've destroyed crafting since even less people would care. It's such a shame how much of a joke Shadowbringers has made things.

[DrWho2010]

crafted set allows anyone to jump back into current raid tier without having to spend potentially weeks of catch up.

[KDSilver]

This is a small thing that I have been thinking about and it actually has began to bother me a bit. Essentially at the launch of a new raid tier, all your work in the previous tier does nothing to help you launch into the next tier because you just replace it with crafter gear on patch day.

Realistically speaking, you can run the next savage tier with the old one.

A bit of story for that.

Back in HW, people complained about the same thing. How their BiS became totally useless once the next tier/major patch dropped.
Devs heared it. For example right now, the next 2 turn in the next tier will be ilvl 500 min.
Sure, you definitely won't want to go min ilvl if you can get some better gear (crafter or normal mode raid), but it's good to know that your previous BiS isn't totally outdated and you can at least clear the first two floor with, which give you some time to grab other gear.
They are seen as temporary solution until you get better if you can't afford the crafted set and because nm raid/tomestone are capped.

I get that it's good to have a system where new players or players who skipped a tier can catch up, but really the crafted gear should be a catch up, not a skip ahead.

You can't catch up if you're already behind. Plus, player would need to have the money to buy the set to "catch" up. Nm mode and tomestone gear are capped. So they wouldn't even be able to participate in savage right away if they wanted too.
This would unecessaraly slow them down.

In this case new crafted weapons for this tier should be i505 and armor/accessories be i500.

Gear you earn in savage should be the best possible gear to start the next tier of savage not crafted gear that anyone can buy off the market board. It gives the gear a slight bit more life than helping you clear the fights you already beat quicker.

No. Because every major patch is a "reset" patch. Like you said, people who had to skip previous tier for some reasons (no need to argue about that) can just come back with the idea of just be in line with everyone else without fearing of being aside. This would make pf require people who only cleared previous tier in the first training/kill parties.
No one should feel attached too much of their old gear honestly. The gearing system in this game is really not interesting at all. Plus, i'd like to remember that BiS aren't savage gear alone. That's a mix of Savage gear + tomestone gear because of substat. So "savage should be the best to start" wouldn't work either. And there's no reason with how this game works to give a bonus to someone clearing the previous floor. Any new patch, everyone start at 0. I understand the frustration, but that"s how devs want to the game to run, and it works quite well, because just like I said, people aren't afraid of coming back whenever they want and they won't have to far like crazy to catch up.

And no, this would not make crafting sets worthless, they would still be a viable catch up mechanic for the players who do not do savage or want to change jobs for the new tier and didn't have that job geared. The only big loss would be that week 1 raiders wouldn't have to pay exorbitant prices for gear they will be throwing away in a few weeks.

It toally would.
Because ilvl 500 is meant to be outdated. It can work at the start until you get better gear, but as weeks pass, they'll totally loose their value, which would kill the market and then, the effort crafter put into this.

For every reason and other I may not have think of, this is a terrible idea for the raiding scene, crafter, the market...
For the community.

The current system works well and shouldn't be changed.

[Xatsh]

Do that and probably should just make crafter make lvl 1 vanity gear only. Because that is what will happen if you do this.

All crafts outside food and meds are worthless 2 weeks after a raid patch as it is... this will just make them pure worthless.

In my opinion there should be a way to craft Current Raid Tier gear actually. Just using rare mats from Hard fights and such. Economy is already horrible, do not need to make it worse.

[Thaldor]

As a crafter i like the idea that we can make relevant gear each patch cycle. It helps those that have jumped back in after a break and need to catch up as well as it makes crafting more than just something that no one wants to put their time into.