Mentors are toxic omg

[Jin-]

OP check Reddit. People there burn you in hell if you mention that you are Mentor

[HeulGDarian]

OP check Reddit. People there burn you in hell if you mention that you are Mentor

And they dont here? i told someone that burning everything down would mean giving the middle finger to good mentors as well, and his reply was that they should also get the middle finger.

[Renkei]

I'm sorry about your experience, a lot of people become mentors because they want personal gratification from users that they help, Though I'd say contributing to the community selflessly is far more helpful.

[Eriane_Elis]

My first dungeon as a sprout had a mentor tank, he pulled everything and I was really new. I didn't know how to chat yet as well. The mentor was yelling at me. It was pretty bad, I avoided dungeons for some time after that, then another mentor tank did the same thing. It's like they didn't notice that I was a sprout who is new to the dungeon. It made me dislike the FF community a lot and I avoided FCs for months as a result. Ironically I'm now in the 99th percentile healer and revived a dying FC to the biggest on our server 2yrs ago (now retired from that kind of work) but it's like, unless you push yourself through the toxicity and BS the players can throw at you, you might never know what lies at the end of the rainbow.

Additionally, when SE changed the ToS I stopped doing Mentor things. Even if you say things kindly throughout the way, even if you say you're a Mentor and treat every group the same, even if you don't call out people and say mechanics in general, or even praise people, there will always be people who complain about you. Oh well, could be worse! Could be a foreigner on the Japanese server.

[EaMett]

I like how the OP makes a post saying mentors aren't toxic and everyone understands that they are lol. I can understand though since it wasn't really clear.

Of course there are. However, mentors should be held to a higher standard (it isn't). It actually says so when you sign up, but whatever, SE doesn't actually police it. As such, mentorship should just be removed, in my opinion. It's largely worthless.

There is a legitimate reason a lot of players don't like mentors.

The reason is survivor bias.

I've posted this before but I'll do so again here. Just like how the OP has only encountered one toxic mentor in his 1700 mentor roulettes, the data I've put together on Aether reflects this.
I've found that ~1.2% of mentor encounters are "bad". Now in my case "bad" means that they:
- Left a dungeon on start or early (ex roulettes)
- Behavior that doesn't meet my standards of mentorship. For example some mentors are helpful and give advice but get impatient with sprouts. I add these to the "bad" section
- clearly Toxic behavior

The actually toxic mentors represent under 0.14% of mentor encounters. Obviously, as the majority of "bad" mentors are just mentors who drop from ex fights.

Next to that a full 20% of mentors are helpful and largely benefit the party. The rest of mentors are just silent (exactly like how the op says he's 99% silent).
If you're wondering how the silent mentors fair, 54% have above average skill levels (This is subjective but I'm confident I'm somewhat accurate) and only 7% have subpar skill (potentially mentors learning new classes). The rest are either average or were encountered in content where it was hard to tell so I marked them as unknown.

This actually paints a pretty good picture of mentors in general. The whole "mentor system is broken" thing is, like I said, survivor bias. It's just the result of people's brains tuning out the almost 80% of silent mentors and skimming over the 20% of good ones since that's what they expect. But if 1 out of 100 mentors does something they shouldn't then that sticks around in people's minds.

Edit: This data doesn't speak to the quality of NN. Just battle content on Aether. I'm sure the NN mileage varies, especially in EU where language barriers are a thing. On Faerie the NN is good.

[HeulGDarian]

I like how the OP makes a post saying mentors aren't toxic and everyone understands that they are lol. I can understand though since it wasn't really clear.






The reason is survivor bias.

I've posted this before but I'll do so again here. Just like how the OP has only encountered one toxic mentor in his 1700 mentor roulettes, the data I've put together on Aether reflects this.
I've found that ~1.2% of mentor encounters are "bad". Now in my case "bad" means that they:
- Left a dungeon on start or early (ex roulettes)
- Behavior that doesn't meet my standards of mentorship. For example some mentors are helpful and give advice but get impatient with sprouts. I add these to the "bad" section
- clearly Toxic behavior

The actually toxic mentors represent under 0.14% of mentor encounters. Obviously, as the majority of "bad" mentors are just mentors who drop from ex fights.

Next to that a full 20% of mentors are helpful and largely benefit the party. The rest of mentors are just silent (exactly like how the op says 99% he's silent).
If you're wondering how the silent mentors fair, 54% have above average skill levels (This is subjective but I'm confident I'm somewhat accurate) and only 7% have subpar skill (potentially mentors learning new classes). The rest are either average or were encountered in content where it was hard to tell so I marked them as unknown.

This actually paints a pretty good picture of mentors in general. The whole "mentor system is broken" thing is, like I said, survivor bias. It's just the result of people's brains tuning out the almost 80% of silent mentors and glossing over the 20% of good ones since that's what they expect. But if 1 out of 100 mentors does something they shouldn't then that sticks around in people's minds.

Edit: This data doesn't speak to the quality of NN. Just battle content on Aether. I'm sure the NN mileage varies, especially in EU where language barriers are a thing. On Faerie the NN is good.

Language barrier does indeed suck, and auto translation just doesnt help on that. We got goodbye i must now take my leave and we dont have kill at the same time or place target on the marker

[Ayuhra]

One thing to keep in mind is even if someone snaps at you for giving them advice, they might still take advice to heart.

Ego and pride prevents them from saying they made a mistake in the moment.

Not arguing that this is a pleasant response to deal with...just, keep giving advice if someone seems like they need it. Politely, of course.

[HeulGDarian]

One thing to keep in mind is even if someone snaps at you for giving them advice, they might still take advice to heart.

Ego and pride prevents them from saying they made a mistake in the moment.

Not arguing that this is a pleasant response to deal with...just, keep giving advice if someone seems like they need it. Politely, of course.

tsunderes?

[Aurelius2625]

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

How about no? It's not "Shaming" it's "we literally won't clear this if you keep doing these things".

Dude, grow up. Be an adult. Be a man/woman. If you are PLAYING WRONG in a TEAM GAME and your TEAM needs you to DO BETTER and someone is TELLING YOU HOW, you should do that.

It's not SHAMING. Public shaming by telling you how to dps/heal/tank? No. Absolutely not. That's not shaming. That's giving advice.

"Hey moron, do this instead you brainlet" is toxic.... "Hey man, use one tank cooldown per pull, and if the mobs are still alive, use reprisal or arms length when they are up, or your personal cooldown" is NOT SHAMING.

Have skin that is thicker than wet tissue. There are people who will tell me what I am doing wrong, it's okay. I usually read and ask questions in The Balance discord so I'm usually at the top of my game anyways...but for specific things I will ask or be told about.

[SnowVix]

Since you have explicitly asked for advice I will provide some.

1. Never, and I mean never, put your advice into public/group/alliance chat. That will always be public shaming. Praise someone in public. Punish in private. Either privately whisper the other player or send him a mail later.
2. Always give advice when you and the other person are calm. Attempting to give advice during the "heat of the moment" when your and their stress and frustration are running high will either result you in framing your words very badly and/or having your words received very badly.

here's the main problem with those suggestions. if it's something that's not preventing completing the dungeon, sure, you can hold it for later, heck, even ask them if they want some tips after finishing the boss. but often it's something that's preventing completion, like the healer not keeping HP enough for people to live through raidwides or mechanics. and while you're in instance, there's no way to privately communicate with someone, as being in instance blocks tells. and if it's preventing duty completion, it needs to be addressed rather than forcing everyone to disband and re-instance.