PSA: Provoke and You.

[DRKoftheAzure]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

[Leiron]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

No, it doesn't, because putting enmity combos back into the game doesn't change the fact that people are pulling with provoke.
People did the same behavior up until enmity got buffed and enmity combos were removed. So I fail to see the logic in your statement.

[Videra]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

There is not a single circumstance in current tanking that necessitates useless emnity combos lol.

[DRKoftheAzure]

No, it doesn't, because putting enmity combos back into the game doesn't change the fact that people are pulling with provoke.
People did the same behavior up until enmity got buffed and enmity combos were removed. So I fail to see the logic in your statement.

There is not a single circumstance in current tanking that necessitates useless emnity combos lol.

Can either of you come up with better ideas that DON'T involve the ONE enmity toggle, Provoke, Shirk, and the ONE ranged attack that all tanks have? Because I am actually interested in hearing what ideas you would have instead.

[Leiron]

Can either of you come up with better ideas that DON'T involve the ONE enmity toggle, Provoke, Shirk, and the ONE ranged attack that all tanks have? Because I am actually interested in hearing what ideas you would have instead.

There are none? This is simply a learn to play issue.

[Videra]

Can either of you come up with better ideas that DON'T involve the ONE enmity toggle, Provoke, Shirk, and the ONE ranged attack that all tanks have? Because I am actually interested in hearing what ideas you would have instead.

There aren't any ideas because they aren't needed. End of. It's a learn to tank issue.

[SnowVix]

Can either of you come up with better ideas that DON'T involve the ONE enmity toggle, Provoke, Shirk, and the ONE ranged attack that all tanks have? Because I am actually interested in hearing what ideas you would have instead.

player skill problems don't need to be solved by making the job even harder

[Boomsmash]

This thread just vindicates the need for enmity combos for off tanking, and people will STILL ARGUE that we don't need enmity combos...

You.
Don't.
Need.
Enmity.
Combos.

Listen to me. Listen hard, because I have L80 tanks on 3 different characters. This is basic mechanics, too, so that shouldn't matter.

Tank Stance multiplies the enmity your EVERYTHING generates by like 100. You do not need Provoke, at all, unless the fight has a tank-swap mechanic that requires it to happen at exactly this second. As long as you are pushing your buttons and not stopping to finish a glass of wine between each, you are going to hold aggro.

As long as the OTs give the MT a few seconds to get a lead going on enmity, they can then have stance on and lay into the boss, and it is fine, because if the MT gets crumped the boss will snap to an OT that is in #2 spot, and not Ye Random Healer.

In conclusion, this issue is tanks Provoking without reason and without knowing what the hell they are doing, spinning and drunken wandering the boss all over the place, nuking the Alliance in the process.

[DRKoftheAzure]

You.
Don't.
Need.
Enmity.
Combos.

Then by that logic we also don't need Enmity toggles and have just enmity tied to the "Tank Mastery Trait" but someone is going to make an argument about why we need the enmity toggle to begin with, while also arguing that enmity combos should never come back.

[Boomsmash]

Then by that logic we also don't need Enmity toggles and have just enmity tied to the "Tank Mastery Trait" but someone is going to make an argument about why we need the enmity toggle to begin with, while also arguing that enmity combos should never come back.

The logic of the former Does Not Follow, and the latter is my position.

It's simple.

1) The Tank Stance toggle lets the Tank focus on pushing their buttons, attacking, healing (if applicable), mitigating, keeping things pointed, and still having an engaging amount of junk they can do. They are still generating good threat and not locked to the old 1-2-3 combo that made tanking a boring drone in order to be doing your job well. They can adapt to the situation without being on the edge of their seat about if they can keep aggro on that fourth mob that the BLM has a Blast Romance going on with.

2) Tanks want and need some way to manage their enmity generation in order to hold threat or not, if they are in a situation where there is more than one person in the Tank role. Otherwise it is very hard to prevent "fighting for aggro" when they do not intend to. Not everyone has the same skill, the same gear, ping and rotation speeds, so there's plenty of fiddly bits that would make aggro start bouncing around just from those normal mismatches. The simple way to do this is to let them have a toggle that turns the multiplier on or off.

"But wait!" you say. "There's Provoke!" A Tank that is geared, seasoned, and determined will take that piddly lead and snap it like a twig, especially if the Tank using Provoke isn't any of those. But when you have multiple Tanks with varying skill levels, it's just a recipe for Aggro Pinball.