6.0 Predictions: Will it be Garlemald, Sharlayan, or Meracydia?

[Vyrerus]

I also think Sharlayan is going to play a big role in 6.0.

That is true. You may either quote Urianger quoting Louisoix, or you may quote the DRK job quest line. "To not act when it is in your power to save someone is not wisdom... it is indolence." or "Sometimes it's all you can do to save yourself." Probably didn't get those exactly right.

Some other connections between Sharlayan and Shadowbringers at the very least. In the Great Gubal Library there's the, "School of Phantasmagoria." Compare to our, "Tomestones of Phantasmagoria" which are obtained first in Amaurot, but then also in the Twinning and Akademia Anyder. Not much of one to promote tomestone lore, but Phantasmagoria is a noun that means, "a sequence of real or imaginary images, similar to dreaming."

Beyond that, the similarities between Akademia Anyder and Saint Mocianne's Arborteum are pretty rad. Every area is defined by what studies go on inside of it. Saint Mocianne's has a few more specific ones, but in general the dungeons start out very similarly. Saint Mocianne's transitions from Limnology to telmatology which are both the study of wetlands, marshlands, swamplands etc. In both version of the dungeon the first bosses are plantoid type enemies that were originally considered river/water type monsters, the Malboro(first appearance FF2) and the Ochu(First appearance FF1).

In Akademia Anyder the first area is all lumped under Ichthyology which is the study of fish, and by extension the waters they inhabit. First boss = fish.

Then the dungeons transition to Eremology and Phytobiology which is the study of the desert/desert plants and then study of plant life. Not exactly the same, but it's the same structure.

Gubal sort of compares to Amanesis only instead of concept crystals it's monsters sealed in books.

[Hank_Hotspur]

I just worry if the empire is downed in the same patch expansion as Zodiark, we will create a power vacuum that will make the next narrative arc too slow to start.

I think recent patches have show how expedient the writers can be. I did not think we'd have our final confrontation with Elidibus right after getting our first idea of what the Ascians were, let alone in a X.3 patch. I would not be surprised if when we reach the end of the Ascian/Garlemald storyline we immediately blitz into the next storyline with some suddenness.

[Cilia]

Having plowed through the entirety of 3.0 over the long weekend... and watched all the cutscenes except dungeon intros...

I'm more inclined to believe it's Sharlayan. If the hint we have - "review Heavensward" - holds true, and Garlemald is not on the table due to dealing with them in both Werlyt and Bozja, I can't think of where else it could be.

The first act of Heavensward climaxes with the uncovering of truths long hidden from Ishgard. Likewise many such truths were hidden from the peoples of the world until we learned them in Shadowbringers; what we are fighting for and why, as well as how the conflict actually started. Things are a bit different, however; while Hydaelyn may have deceived the peoples of the world she's just following her programming to bind Zodiark, and the Ascians' plan of committing genocide times over and omnicide on the Reflections is not the same as how the Dragonsong War began. It is similar, but not the same; and unlike the Dragonsong War there were no parties willing to make a compromise, or make amends. Hydaelyn cannot violate her programming any more than Elidibus (Zodiark), and none of the Ascians have any interest in making peace with Hydaelyn or trying to coexist with the races of man (such as they are now); that is to say we've inflexible instigators on both ends of the conflict, no Aymeric or Hraesvelgr to try and bridge the divide. With the last of the Unsundered gone, however, all that remains is to clean up the Sundered Ascians still active and that will finish it. (The fault is still ultimately with the Convocation's unwillingness or inability to accept the losses during the Final Days, and shortsighted belief Zodiark was the end-all be-all solution to any and all problems they may face; whether the latter is due to tempering or otherwise is immaterial.)

If anything, the PC will become more of an Estinien figure - one who knows the dark truths, but fights on for the sake of the people they've sworn to protect regardless of the root causes of the conflict. All the same they'll go against Hydaelyn if need be, just as Estinien goes against the Holy See when Thordan's ambitions become clear.

Why Sharlayan though? It's home to all manner of secrets to which we are not privy, plausibly up to and including the selfsame truths we learned in Shadowbringers. The Sharlayans are not keen on letting important secrets slip out, and what we learned could shake the world to its core. I can easily see them trying to suppress that information and coming into conflict with us to do so. (They put a hit out on a fortuneteller for trying to share healing arts derived from the same; the upheaval brought about by telling everyone Hydaelyn's really a primal would cause way more problems than that. Maybe.)

Basically we're Estinien, Sharlayan is the Holy See, and what's left of the Ascians act like Nidhogg's Horde minus personal animosity against Sharlayan. Leaves us with the question of who's going to try and settle things peacefully, but that doesn't seem to be an option on the table if Fandaniel's company is anything to go by.

... maybe. It's the best guess I have right now, anyroad.

(Apropos of nothing, this game is extremely alt unfriendly; sure, the revamp to ARR lets you finish it and Heavensward comfortably without having to do sidequests, but there's so much that doesn't carry between characters! Mounts! Minions! Emotes! Hairstyles! And for want of good-looking headgear I ended up using a monocle on my Hrothgar! And all the gunblades before the Doman Steel one look pretty much like toothpicks on Roegadyn and Hrothgar!)

[Vyrerus]

Having plowed through the entirety of 3.0 over the long weekend...
(Apropos of nothing, this game is extremely alt unfriendly; sure, the revamp to ARR lets you finish it and Heavensward comfortably without having to do sidequests, but there's so much that doesn't carry between characters! Mounts! Minions! Emotes! Hairstyles! And for want of good-looking headgear I ended up using a monocle on my Hrothgar! And all the gunblades before the Doman Steel one look pretty much like toothpicks on Roegadyn and Hrothgar!)

Ehh, you get used to it. Eventually if you play through on enough alts you start to become disenchanted with any sort of mount farming or other similar things.

Also I'm really digging it being Sharlayan with a twist.

[Kesey]

I'm more inclined to believe it's Sharlayan. If the hint we have - "review Heavensward" - holds true, and Garlemald is not on the table due to dealing with them in both Werlyt and Bozja, I can't think of where else it could be.

The first act of Heavensward climaxes with the uncovering of truths long hidden from Ishgard. Likewise many such truths were hidden from the peoples of the world until we learned them in Shadowbringers; what we are fighting for and why, as well as how the conflict actually started. Things are a bit different, however; while Hydaelyn may have deceived the peoples of the world she's just following her programming to bind Zodiark, and the Ascians' plan of committing genocide times over and omnicide on the Reflections is not the same as how the Dragonsong War began. It is similar, but not the same; and unlike the Dragonsong War there were no parties willing to make a compromise, or make amends. Hydaelyn cannot violate her programming any more than Elidibus (Zodiark), and none of the Ascians have any interest in making peace with Hydaelyn or trying to coexist with the races of man (such as they are now); that is to say we've inflexible instigators on both ends of the conflict, no Aymeric or Hraesvelgr to try and bridge the divide. With the last of the Unsundered gone, however, all that remains is to clean up the Sundered Ascians still active and that will finish it. (The fault is still ultimately with the Convocation's unwillingness or inability to accept the losses during the Final Days, and shortsighted belief Zodiark was the end-all be-all solution to any and all problems they may face; whether the latter is due to tempering or otherwise is immaterial.)

Why Sharlayan though? It's home to all manner of secrets to which we are not privy, plausibly up to and including the selfsame truths we learned in Shadowbringers. The Sharlayans are not keen on letting important secrets slip out, and what we learned could shake the world to its core. I can easily see them trying to suppress that information and coming into conflict with us to do so. (They put a hit out on a fortuneteller for trying to share healing arts derived from the same; the upheaval brought about by telling everyone Hydaelyn's really a primal would cause way more problems than that. Maybe.)

Basically we're Estinien, Sharlayan is the Holy See, and what's left of the Ascians act like Nidhogg's Horde minus personal animosity against Sharlayan. Leaves us with the question of who's going to try and settle things peacefully, but that doesn't seem to be an option on the table if Fandaniel's company is anything to go by.

My feelings exactly, I hope it is as deep as this if 6.0 is going to top Shadowbringers. Although there is a part of me that says its just dragons are coming back into the story. Guess we'll know sooner or later.

[ShadowMeowth]

The first act of Heavensward climaxes with the uncovering of truths long hidden from Ishgard. Likewise many such truths were hidden from the peoples of the world until we learned them in Shadowbringers; what we are fighting for and why, as well as how the conflict actually started. Things are a bit different, however; while Hydaelyn may have deceived the peoples of the world she's just following her programming to bind Zodiark, and the Ascians' plan of committing genocide times over and omnicide on the Reflections is not the same as how the Dragonsong War began. It is similar, but not the same; and unlike the Dragonsong War there were no parties willing to make a compromise, or make amends. Hydaelyn cannot violate her programming any more than Elidibus (Zodiark), and none of the Ascians have any interest in making peace with Hydaelyn or trying to coexist with the races of man (such as they are now); that is to say we've inflexible instigators on both ends of the conflict, no Aymeric or Hraesvelgr to try and bridge the divide. With the last of the Unsundered gone, however, all that remains is to clean up the Sundered Ascians still active and that will finish it. (The fault is still ultimately with the Convocation's unwillingness or inability to accept the losses during the Final Days, and shortsighted belief Zodiark was the end-all be-all solution to any and all problems they may face; whether the latter is due to tempering or otherwise is immaterial.)

I agree with most of your exposition (the responsibility of the Convocation is highly debatable given the circumstances, but that is a topic for another thread) and while perhaps the expansion does not take us to Old Sharlayan because I recall it is not a big island, Sharlayan is definitely one of our destinations.

However, I feel compelled to point out that from the sundered Ascians, we have only seen Fandaniel's stance. There remain four unaccounted that we do not know what their approach will be to their newfound freedom. I can see one or two, perhaps, supporting Fandaniel, but perhaps our inner Azem brings the stars to our side and others who actually care for the star and do not want to see it burn as Zenos and Fandaniel plan might try supporting us. It is a reccurring theme, after Emet extended the hand of cooperation, and the Scions after 5.0 often lament that they could not reach that goal, but at least they got to understand the Unsundered. To me, at least, the natural progression would be actually reaching that point of cooperation, even if it is with the sundered Ascians. What is the point of elaborating in cooperation if we obliterate completely the other side?

[FrightfulNight]

I honestly believe that 6.0 will take us to Islabard with Sharlyan as sort of the Kugane of the expansion since it is not large of a nation. I know that quote has everyone expecting another curve-ball but they already did that with ShB if they do it twice it will get old and repetitive, and maybe even make Islabard a bit of a meme. plus Yoshi P. has held that 6.0 will be the end of the season 1 story line set up with the games launch, and that will include wrapping up all these lingering plot points which i just do not see happening if it is not Islabard. I also just do not see them continuing the Garlean threat for another expansion after the Hydalyn/Zodiark plot line is wrapped up.

I get the feeling that they want to move on to new content, stories and threats after 6.0 so that includes finishing most of the plot lines and threats that have been set up since 1.0. I mean even the mist covering Islabard makes it look like a endgame level area. Plus i feel they will finish up this world map before adding any new areas, and i do not expect it to take us to another shard like the void, they already did that for ShB but twice, i expect that since it is the end of the season 1 story line it will be on the source (the world we have grown attached to since launch).

I do however expect the final Mystery zone like Azyz La or the Tempest were before to be the Moon, i do not expect an entire expansion around it just the final zone with half of it on the surface and the other half under it's surface.

[Cilia]

Ehh, you get used to it. Eventually if you play through on enough alts you start to become disenchanted with any sort of mount farming or other similar things.

Also I'm really digging it being Sharlayan with a twist.

The main problem I had was lack of fashion choices. I'm quite accustomed to having an array of stylish gear I can use (even if I stick with gear practical for the PC's profession); going back to having zilch sucks big time. I missed some of my sillier emotes while waiting at dungeon entrances, but those weren't such a big deal, and I've never been the type to farm mounts. Given Hrothgar have veeeeeeeery limited customization options (you can't even change their base fur color without a Fantasia since it's like changing skin tone for everyone else, and their hairstyle is tied to their face soooo...) that wasn't much of an issue. But no style!

Still miffed pre-Doman Steel gunblades are all like toothpicks on the larger body size though.

My feelings exactly, I hope it is as deep as this if 6.0 is going to top Shadowbringers. Although there is a part of me that says its just dragons are coming back into the story. Guess we'll know sooner or later.

I'll be supes disappointed if it's just dragons coming back into the narrative. I expect they may have a part to play, but that just feels so... obvious. (I am known for overthinking things though.)

I agree with most of your exposition (the responsibility of the Convocation is highly debatable given the circumstances, but that is a topic for another thread) and while perhaps the expansion does not take us to Old Sharlayan because I recall it is not a big island, Sharlayan is definitely one of our destinations.

However, I feel compelled to point out that from the sundered Ascians, we have only seen Fandaniel's stance. There remain four unaccounted that we do not know what their approach will be to their newfound freedom. I can see one or two, perhaps, supporting Fandaniel, but perhaps our inner Azem brings the stars to our side and others who actually care for the star and do not want to see it burn as Zenos and Fandaniel plan might try supporting us. It is a reccurring theme, after Emet extended the hand of cooperation, and the Scions after 5.0 often lament that they could not reach that goal, but at least they got to understand the Unsundered. To me, at least, the natural progression would be actually reaching that point of cooperation, even if it is with the sundered Ascians. What is the point of elaborating in cooperation if we obliterate completely the other side?

The thing is cooperation was never possible because our goals are diametrically opposed to those of the unsundered Ascians. The entire expansion I was waiting for Emet to stab us in the back; lo and behold, at the critical moment he does! Even without Hydaelyn in the mix, we'd still be against them for our right to live. Emet-Selch, despite his words, never saw anyone as much more than tools to be used for the sake of his own goals. Uncompromising as they were, a mutual understanding with the unsundered Ascians was the best anyone could really hope for. We already did completely finish them off; the sundered Ascians are quite different beasts. (You know how lots of people revere Rorschach from Watchmen for his uncompromising nature? This is why that is not a good thing.)

It is my hope we can appeal to the sundered Ascians' humanity and resolve things peacefully, though I'm not counting on it. Yes, I'm aware there are sundered Ascians out there other than Fandaniel, but we don't know where they are or what their agenda is. Are they more amenable than he or the unsundered? Maybe. Possibly. Who knows. But I do not gamble with maybes. Until such a time as we do know what their agendas are it's best to err on the side of caution and assume they have some calamitous plan in the works. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Plus if you really think about how the sundered Ascians came to be... an entirely stable mentality isn't to be expected.

Anyway. I've said my piece; I'm expecting Sharlayan in some capacity, though I'll not be surprised if "not Garlemald" is just a red herring and we end up going there. Or both. Alls I know is, I really want an eldritch place like Al'Taieu or the Promyvion areas from XI. Or a more permanent Memoria like area from IX (we get a lil' of that in the Bozja intro quest). 'n stuff. (Moon's more likely though. Such disappoint. Very sad.)

[ShadowMeowth]

It is my hope we can appeal to the sundered Ascians' humanity and resolve things peacefully, though I'm not counting on it. Yes, I'm aware there are sundered Ascians out there other than Fandaniel, but we don't know where they are or what their agenda is. Are they more amenable than he or the unsundered? Maybe. Possibly. Who knows. But I do not gamble with maybes. Until such a time as we do know what their agendas are it's best to err on the side of caution and assume they have some calamitous plan in the works. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Plus if you really think about how the sundered Ascians came to be... an entirely stable mentality isn't to be expected.

Agreed in most accounts. We can expect calamitous destruction from the sundered Ascians (there is Fandaniel after all) or hope for them being amenable to reason. At least a couple of them.

Then again, in defense to Emet, he was willing to jump off the Rejoining train if the WoL/D could contain the Light aka we are Rejoined enough to forge a new path. We know how that ends up, though. Speaking of him, aye, it is true we defeated the Unsundered (one eaten by King Thordan, two out of the picture in their own way and most likely untempered by death) so we crushed under heel those who refused to see reason (whatever "reason" means, as it is a relative concept), and this calls to my mind Emet's little lesson on conquests. Paraphrased: "Conquest is the easy part. The real challenge comes next: quenching the flames of animosity and mantaining a semblance of peace. This requires the conquerer to treat the conquered with dignity and the conquered to let bygones be bygones." He, of course, was speaking then of our handling of the Eulmorans, but this lesson can be applied to the Ascians as well. And Emet notes it was us who achieved this difficult feat... so there is that. Here is to hoping, I would say. :)

I know literally nothing of Watchmen so I cannot give my opinion about the reference. In any case, and this is currently a "what if" scenario, if some sundered Ascians decide to support our cause, what would that entail in the eyes of some people / nations / you name it? In Eorzea and Othard, the WoL/D's opinion is deeply valued so I assume they would come around, especially if there are other pressing matters. But again my eyes turn to Sharlayan and their zealous ways. And we do not have voice there, except if the Scions intercede in our favor, and even then we know that Sharlayans have no qualms silencing their own who spread certain knowledge, see Leveva. Even if there are no Ascians involved, the truths we uncovered in the First might be enough for the Forum to try to coerce us into silence. And there we would have another brewing conflict. Yay. :'D

[Cilia]

snip

I'm not certain Emet-Selch ever intended not to proceed with Rejoinings. His goal was to turn us to his side, or failing that make us into useful pawns.

The "reason" the Ascians refuse to see is the value of life post-Sundering (or even any life that's not an Ancient). The great sin of theirs that led to Hydaelyn's creation and then the Sundering was the belief that only the Ancients' lives had value or meaning; I've said it before but they saw everything else as little more than livestock to feed Zodiark for their own ends. The lives of lesser beings than Ancients weren't valued beyond how much aether they could offer Zodiark; this, and the wisdom to know Zodiark wasn't the end-all be-all solution to their problems, is why Hydaelyn was created. (It ties into a Japanese storytelling concept: "mono no aware," or finding beauty in ephemeral things. The Ascians' end goal is to make a static world, which goes against this idea; accordingly they are all antagonists, though "mono no aware" also deals with the pain of loss so they are given sympathy.)

To follow Emet-Selch's philosophy Hydaelyn is at fault for demonizing the Ascians and scrubbing their history from the world, but so too are the Ascians for refusing to forgive her for what she did. Nobody's hands are clean, but it's the races of man who are caught in the crossfire.

Like everything else in Watchmen Rorschach is... complicated, to say the least, but to put it simply he's an absolutely principled man who won't compromise those principles for anything - when averting Armageddon hinges on him lying, he chooses death instead of compromise. That absolute adherence to his principles is why people like him so much, but being so inflexible is dangerous. I bring this up because the Ascians follow similar dogmatic principles they won't break for anything - Elidibus has it worst (being a primal and all) but none of the others make any attempt to see the value of mortal life beyond as tools to accomplish their goals. Only Emet-Selch gets it, and only after he's been mortally wounded.

In retrospect, the thing about Sharlayan is that if we started spreading the truth unless they have agents all over the place to hush it there's not much they can do to stop us. I wouldn't put it past them to try and silence it, but I question whether or not they can.

(Personally I feel at least the heads of state would be OK with working with a sundered Ascian - they're willing to cooperate with Gaius, after all - but holding one such figure at arm's length would be absolutely necessary. Despite how chummy we got with Emet-Selch in Shadowbringers he still stabbed us in the back.)