Thank you SE: WHM is fine where it’s at.

[Shurrikhan]

If WHM can nourish the lily by whipping out shields, then it immediately changes the identity of this job.

Why would it, though? WHM has never been without a shield. First it was the nearly double-strength Stoneskin, then Benison on lilies, and now Benison on CD. Similarly, every "shield healer" has always had HoTs. Why would that make or break a WHM's identity?

[Gemina]

Why would it, though? WHM has never been without a shield. First it was the nearly double-strength Stoneskin, then Benison on lilies, and now Benison on CD. Similarly, every "shield healer" has always had HoTs. Why would that make or break a WHM's identity?

It's because Misery is tied to heals. I feel it should remain that way, and if Benison can fuel Misery then it immediately becomes tied to shields. If Benison can fuel Misery, then the WHM will just mindlessly use it every time a lily is up unless their other ogcd resources are used up. I would prefer to not make the Afflatus restorative skills obsolete, or extremely situational.

I am looking for more interactive gameplay with the healers and their gauges. Especially WHM whose interaction with their gauge is near zero.

[Cheremia]

At the start of Stormblood, you HAD to have a Lilly to cast Benison. I remember clearly healing before a pull ended to have Benison up for the next pull and having to Cure to use it which felt absolutely garbage.
Because Cure/2 are barely used, even in bigpulls, so you HAD to forcecast Cure to get Benison up. And i'm not a healer that cures after pulls, except the tank, for some reason, is literally bleeding out on the spot after a pull but thats not likely to happen. And i think it was in fight only, too or some stupid stuff...
That's why they made it a simple cooldown real fast. So people use it.

And i just don't want the shield to go back to anywhere close to: do this first so you can use your stupid shield.

Like i said, make it Fluid Aura, since that skill is absolutely useless. Repose, for better or worse, at least has some uses in some low dungeons (like Dezamael on the little ballghosts, haha.......................).
Make Fluid Aura do damage, make it useful again, make it an offglobal lily skill, i don't care.

But not Benison... not my shield... again.

[Shurrikhan]

And i just don't want the shield to go back to anywhere close to: do this first so you can use your stupid shield.

Again, though, literally no one has asked for that.

Gemina has suggested that you have it as a spender option for Lilies in the present system (but where Lily generation can be accelerated during/via uptime). Such would not lock Benison behind prerequisite steps, only a timer, equivalently to more than Solace and Rapture, with compensation through Lily generation being accelerated.

I've hinted that a revised version of the old Lily system (Blessed Growth above), paired with more frequent and useful instant- and/or short-cast GCDs*, may have offered WHM more utility and agency with less button bloat than we have now (Solace and Rapture each being simply instant cast copies of Cure II and Medica). Such still would not lock Benison behind anything, but merely allow you to accelerate it.
*These "more frequent instant- and/or short-cast GCDs" could come by myriad means, such as DoT-filler interactions, whereby a Dia and/or Regen might each make your next Glare instant, or Glare and Holy consuming a portion of Dia's DoT damage to deal it instantly while curative spells in turn consume a portion of Regen's duration if the target is missing health enough not to overheal, or even new wind or water mechanics altogether.

[Cheremia]

Sorry was at work so i had to speedtype. I do get what you mean, i just don‘t want it do be benison because of those reasons. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Your options may be different and all and i get that but i‘d like benison to be left alone.

Thats why i mention that it should be fluid aura since that skill is borderline useless and can be forgotten. And since people want quake and tornado, that might be the better option.


Hope i could make myself a little clearer


Edit: Also now that i think about it...
What do if i want to use benison and then a lily heal but only have one lilly?

[Gemina]

Edit: Also now that i think about it...
What do if i want to use benison and then a lily heal but only have one lilly?

Exactly! That is thought provoking, interactive gameplay.

The answer to this question is the situation dictates which skill you would use in this case. For example, let's say my idea was implemented (PoM is now a full time buff given/refreshed through Benison); PoM is about to fall off, which means so is your DPS; but one or more players are below 50%. What skill are you going to use, especially knowing that if you don't use Benison, it's going to be 30s before you can get PoM back up. Also keep in mind that the PoM buff is also responsible for the increased lily generation.

The thing about that last situation is you were already not playing optimally that forced you into having to make that decision, because you're likely going to lose either your buff, or the player will KO as a result. You were too focused on nourishing the blood lily through Afflatus, and forgot to use a lily on Benison to refresh your PoM. BUT, the nice thing here is that it IS possible that the shield from Benison can provide just enough protection to the player to keep them alive, and also refresh your buff.

As a healer, it should always be more important to keep everyone on their feet, so in that situation if the player is too low you actually have no choice but to let PoM drop, and accept the DPS loss. That is your penalty, for focusing too much on damage in the first place. I absolutely love this aspect in such gameplay. The irony about this set up, is that not only will this more interactive kit potentially allow the WHM to cause damage in a way that adds thought and fun to your Glare spam, but it also maintains the vision the devs have for the job.

As for Benison not being available right away. I know it is a bit of a drawback, but one I know I would trade in a heartbeat to have more interaction with my job gauge and just passively gaining lilies to overheal with in order to use Misery.

[Limonia]

If Divine Benison could only be used with Lilies but still were oGCD, you'd never use the Afflatus heals outside of downtime. It would help with fights where you need to heal so little that you'll overcap lilies if you don't overheal and lose DPS, but they would make it so it doesn't generate a blood lily. I'd rather have it stay a simple oGCD like it's now and make something else to use with lilies you don't need. Something that doesn't invalidate the Afflatus heals, so not just a DPS spell or so. I'm not sure what would be good for this, I only know what I wouldn't want. ;D

If something increases DPS, most players will use it no matter the situation and delegate the healing, even if needed, to someone else. This is why Misery is good. As long as one Afflatus heal is really needed or during downtime, the other two are no DPS loss and you are free to use them (for healing or movement - preferably both).

[Cheremia]

Let me just be honest in that i would hate that "thought provoking" kind of gameplay.

People hated having to use cure over regen for Lillies. I dislike the idea of having to sacrifice a lilly for a better benison. I throw benison at people that were freshly ressed, are struggling, just ate a vuln up before an aoe, got hit before an aoe and then usually heal them with Solace/rapture since its instant and then maybe a tetra at somebody else.
Especially in 24 mans, if everything goes downhill.
If Benison becomes aoe with a lily it would be nice but i think there's better ways. Medica isn't always fast enough in some instances when people go and eat dirt. I also can't heal other Alliances with those. Yes. I heal other alliances if they need help.
And for vanilla: Regen+Benison for tankbusters.
I would NEVER chose Benison then.

Also it being tied to Pom Sounds horrible. There's already SCH that use nothing but Energy drain with their Aetherflows too. Hey, i use Lilly heals 90% to farm misery in dungeons too and between bosses in raids, i can't even talk there. I usually have 0 lillies when entering a fight.
Makes it sound less like an option and more just "Enochian, but for WHM"

That just sounds like the time when everything goes right and you sit on your lillies until there's a mechanic where you have to move. Yes, boring. I know.
But then there's the point of basically not having to use benison for those situations but for the forced PoM refresh . That's not really thought provoking either but a MUST.

If there must be a lily dump, it should be offensive since you using it when you really need those heals, then it would be "tough luck" but chosing between heal and shield doesn't sound right to me at ALL.
Really, you could say that the old lilly system was tought provoking too since you had to chose to use Cure over Regen to use benison. The choice was yours.

That's like... well whm, you can't have both so you have to chose one or the other, chose right. Want a better shield? Account for every mistake pf others so you better don't waste that lilly because you never know. Oh you did and they died? Tough luck. Next time, don't waste that lilly on benison/Misery.


Offtopic but: I still wish the Extra effects of Asylum and the Wings would be ANYTHING but more healing.
Asylum is a hassle to use as is SOMETIMES so it having a better sideeffect have a reason for people to stay in would be cool.
I honesty dislike the sideeffect more than i dislike not having an extra lilly dump.

And... fluid aura, still.

[Gemina]

If Divine Benison could only be used with Lilies but still were oGCD, you'd never use the Afflatus heals outside of downtime. It would help with fights where you need to heal so little that you'll overcap lilies if you don't overheal and lose DPS, but they would make it so it doesn't generate a blood lily. I'd rather have it stay a simple oGCD like it's now and make something else to use with lilies you don't need. Something that doesn't invalidate the Afflatus heals, so not just a DPS spell or so. I'm not sure what would be good for this, I only know what I wouldn't want. ;D

If something increases DPS, most players will use it no matter the situation and delegate the healing, even if needed, to someone else. This is why Misery is good. As long as one Afflatus heal is really needed or during downtime, the other two are no DPS loss and you are free to use them (for healing or movement - preferably both).

Afflatus heals were nearly DoA. Rapture still has merit because we have no other means outside using Swiftcast and Assize to insta-heal the group. This ability should come from a limited resource, so Rapture works just fine in this regard, but sustained AoE healing is something we rarely see outside prog. We currently overheal on purpose, or use the Afflatus heals over ogcd heals in order to charge up Misery. They also should not be downtime abilities. This is a flawed design. Other WHMs seem to allow those 100k miserys to cloud their vision of that problem, and think WHM is just fine.

There are several ways to resolve this. If we wanted to make it simple, we take away Tetra and possibly Bene and call it a day. I would imagine most players would not like this though. Those were two max level skills at one point. Another possibility is to make the Afflatus skills all shields, which would eliminate the over healing issue. I've thought of a lot of possibilities before my proposal, and all the others just result in the same extremely uninteresting lily gauge mechanic for WHM. To be honest, WHM doesn't even really have a mechanic; not in comparison to other jobs.

As soon as you toss one skill in the Afflatus repertoire that does not nourish the blood lily, it changes everything about how the lily mechanic is handled. It's no longer this boring passive trait that grants you skills for just staying alive. The new skill doesn't have to be Benison, but I don't know what else to toss in there. We know it can't be another heal or damage ability. I am also thinking of the job @80, and not some skill we would acquire in the next expansion.

If my theorycrafting were to holdup, the new Benison+PoM mechanic would actually increase WHM DPS, it would also allow for more Miserys in healing intense situations. I really like the idea of the more pain caused to the party, the more pain the WHM can return to the enemy.

If you can think of something better than Benison, especially from our current kit. I am all ears.

[Gemina]

Let me just be honest in that i would hate that "thought provoking" kind of gameplay.

People hated having to use cure over regen for Lillies. I dislike the idea of having to sacrifice a lilly for a better benison. I throw benison at people that were freshly ressed, are struggling, just ate a vuln up before an aoe, got hit before an aoe and then usually heal them with Solace/rapture since its instant and then maybe a tetra at somebody else.
Especially in 24 mans, if everything goes downhill.

You can still use Benison for all those things. And you wouldn't have to wait 30 seconds between each one either. If you like Benison so much, this change actually has you use it more and with a benefit other than a simple shield. Yes, you will sacrifice restorative lilies if you choose to shield, but I think it is a fair tradeoff, especially when considering the increased lily generation and speed for the WHM.

Also it being tied to Pom Sounds horrible. There's already SCH that use nothing but Energy drain with their Aetherflows too. Hey, i use Lilly heals 90% to farm misery in dungeons too and between bosses in raids, i can't even talk there. I usually have 0 lillies when entering a fight.
Makes it sound less like an option and more just "Enochian, but for WHM"

Nothing is tied to PoM. PoM is a buff tied to Benison. Even though WHM doesn't have a ton of skill bloat, they can still make use of removing unnecessary skills. A skill like PoM (and devs should look into others like it) can be deleted and made into a buff that is granted after certain actions. Not only does this reduce button/skill bloat, it invites more interesting gameplay. And what's wrong with Enochian for WHM? It could also be considered Greased Lightning for WHM. All grant speed buffs, and this one for WHM would be the least complicated of them.

SCH energy drain is not a fair comparison. But it too also grants the SCH additional benefits for dumping their stacks.

If there must be a lily dump, it should be offensive since you using it when you really need those heals, then it would be "tough luck" but chosing between heal and shield doesn't sound right to me at ALL.

It absolutely cannot be an offensive skill. If it were to be one, it would not be 300 pot, and it also would not nourish the blood lily. It would be a wasted skill because the WHM will still overheal with their lilies to charge up Misery. Also remember that with the PoM mechanic, there is no lily dump to address anymore. Two totally different things.

That's like... well whm, you can't have both so you have to chose one or the other, chose right. Want a better shield? Account for every mistake pf others so you better don't waste that lilly because you never know. Oh you did and they died? Tough luck. Next time, don't waste that lilly on benison/Misery.

Or we can keep the lily mechanic as braindead as it is now, and also not address the overall dumbed down gameplay for healers in general? Those type of things you just mentioned are exactly some of the things I ask/tell myself when hitting enrages, or wiping before they even happen. You look back at all those little mistakes that all added up over the coarse of the fight.

As for Fluid Aura. Well what are your suggestions to do with it. My personal opinion is to just delete it, but I am all ears on this one too.