Scholar: Returning to Roots

[Absurdity]

I was also including Shadowflare as a DoT

You could probably argue about that one endlessly. Is it a ground target aoe? But it deals tick damage, so is it a DoT?

[ty_taurus]

You could probably argue about that one endlessly. Is it a ground target aoe? But it deals tick damage, so is it a DoT?

I mean yeah, it's damage over time within the area, and I would consider that a part of Scholar's old DoT arsenal, but it's honestly just semantics really. And if I didn't make this clear before (not specifically as a response to your statement but in general), I don't meant to imply that we should go back to having 6ish DoTs or anything. It was certainly not a bloat issue back then, but today is a different story. More to the point that reducing them down to only 1 is overkill.

I mentioned this earlier, but I also want to stress that DoTs alone were never really enough in terms of making healer DPS more thoughtful or engaging, but as a part of Scholar's identity it does make sense to retain them in at least some sense. Personally I feel that Broil, Biolysis, Miasma/olysis, Ruin II, and Shadowflare make for a great core DPS, but just needs some level of engagement added to the system. That or if we are going to cut actions, replace them with something that brings that engagement. As far as Bane is considered, I'd rather find some alternate way of spreading those DoTs via a trait or something to save on the button slot since SCH has a lot of buttons to manage, especially since you optimally want to use pet actions as well.

[Brandedblade]

The common theme I've seen around what scholar does have is "cooldowns" and "resource management"

You manage your faerie, which while simpler then it used to be, is still a set of cooldowns that radiate from an external target. where not only are the cooldowns important, but also positioning.

You manage aetherflow, which even if in alot of situations is just dumped into Energy Drain, is still a resource that needs to be maintained, managed, and optimized in the use of, and the reward for doing so is mana sustain whether directly through energy Drain and the cd, or indirectly by healing for "free"

and Finally, you have fae guage, which while limited in what it's used on, is still a resource that you build by using your kit and spent on free healing.

This is the system I hope SE expands upon. instead of merely adding back old flavor spells for the sake of nostalgia and an extra button to press. SE has the potential to expand and the increase the synergies of these resources and make that the loop and complexity of the class.

The thing I ultimately want to see is a bigger emphasis on the fae gauge, give the scholar more ways to generate the gauge, while also giving the scholar more ways to spend it. For example, something simple like "Casting Broil on a target afflicted by your dot(s) generates 5 fae guage" If we want to add dots, they should not be there merely for the sake of having them, they should be something that the scholar is rewarded for maintaining.

We can even sneak a few of our old spells into the system this way, for example, making shadow flare an aoe aetherflow spender or making it faerie flavored and attaching it to Fae Gauge as a situational dump skill (name that comes to mind is Fae Hurricane, if you're wondering)

[ty_taurus]

The common theme I've seen around what scholar does have is "cooldowns" and "resource management"

You manage your faerie, which while simpler then it used to be, is still a set of cooldowns that radiate from an external target. where not only are the cooldowns important, but also positioning.

You manage aetherflow, which even if in alot of situations is just dumped into Energy Drain, is still a resource that needs to be maintained, managed, and optimized in the use of, and the reward for doing so is mana sustain whether directly through energy Drain and the cd, or indirectly by healing for "free"

and Finally, you have fae guage, which while limited in what it's used on, is still a resource that you build by using your kit and spent on free healing.

This is the system I hope SE expands upon. instead of merely adding back old flavor spells for the sake of nostalgia and an extra button to press. SE has the potential to expand and the increase the synergies of these resources and make that the loop and complexity of the class.

The thing I ultimately want to see is a bigger emphasis on the fae gauge, give the scholar more ways to generate the gauge, while also giving the scholar more ways to spend it. For example, something simple like "Casting Broil on a target afflicted by your dot(s) generates 5 fae guage" If we want to add dots, they should not be there merely for the sake of having them, they should be something that the scholar is rewarded for maintaining.

We can even sneak a few of our old spells into the system this way, for example, making shadow flare an aoe aetherflow spender or making it faerie flavored and attaching it to Fae Gauge as a situational dump skill (name that comes to mind is Fae Hurricane, if you're wondering)

The scary thing we need to keep in mind when we theorycraft new tools or resource groups is that DPS trumps Healing unless that Healing allows more DPS than the DPS alternative (i.e. Aetherflow healing like Lustrate means less GCDs need to be spent on healing and thus are more DPS than Energy Drain, when used at the right times at least). The same would be true with damage associated with the Fey Gauge. That's not to say it can't play out, but we definitely need to pay close attention to costs and CDs because the second something like Fey Hurricane gets added is the second that Fey Gauge management now revolves around ensuring you have max uptime on Fey Hurricane.

[Eloah]

You could probably argue about that one endlessly. Is it a ground target aoe? But it deals tick damage, so is it a DoT?

While I agree with this, the simple fact that Shadowflare couldn't be used in tandem with Sacred Soil shows it's considered more of a ground target than a DoT.

[ty_taurus]

While I agree with this, the simple fact that Shadowflare couldn't be used in tandem with Sacred Soil shows it's considered more of a ground target then a DoT.

So Shadowflare did NOT do damage over time, is what you're saying.

[NobleWinter]

No, we all know it's a DoT but in terms of design considerations it seems it was more important that the visual didn't overlap with Sacred Soil.

[ty_taurus]

No, we all know it's a DoT but in terms of design considerations it seems it was more important that the visual didn't overlap with Sacred Soil.

I can understand that sentiment but the reason we were talking about semantics wasn't really weather or not Shadowflare and/or Sacred Soil belong together, but just listing how many DoT spells the Scholar has had access to over the lifespan of the game. Yes, Shadowflare did damage over time, so it makes perfect sense to include it in the conversation.

[Eloah]

So Shadowflare did NOT do damage over time, is what you're saying.

Really?

It's right there in what I said "considered more of a ground target then a DoT." I never said it didn't do damage over time, just that system-wise its function was as a ground target. Most offensive ground targeting skills use a damage over time effect, but no one ever refers to them as DoTs in the same sense as Bio, Thunder, Aero. Most ground targets are also oGCD, Shadowflare was unique in that regard until SB, where it was turned into an oGCD. No one ever referred to Flaming Arrow, Doton, or Salted Earth as DoTs. The easiest way to to look at it is that not all ground targeting skills are DoTs and not all DoTs target the ground.

[ty_taurus]

Really?

It's right there in what I said "considered more of a ground target then a DoT." I never said it didn't do damage over time, just that system-wise its function was as a ground target. Most offensive ground targeting skills use a damage over time effect, but no one ever refers to them as DoTs in the same sense as Bio, Thunder, Aero. Most ground targets are also oGCD, Shadowflare was unique in that regard until SB, where it was turned into an oGCD. No one ever referred to Flaming Arrow, Doton, or Salted Earth as DoTs. The easiest way to to look at it is that not all ground targeting skills are DoTs and not all DoTs target the ground.

Does Shadowflare do damage over time or doesn't it? That was what the conversation was about. Please, explain to me how going "um, actually it's considered a ground target AoE and not a DoT" impacts the conversation of "How many damage over time effects did SCH have at each stage of its design?" Because I'd love to know how this seemingly useless to the conversation fact is so important-so absolutely necessary that we would be completely inaccurate discussing ways the SCH could do damage over time otherwise.