The old HM Primals are STILL required for MSQ????

[Stepjam]

Hard mode is a misnomer and a relic from the 3 4man trials.

[MistakeNot]

Are those fights really so difficult that it's a problem? Garuda doesn't even get to do half of her mechanics most of the time anymore.

No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

[Moomba33]

I'm surprised they didn't go the other direction and simply make it MSQ instead of fiddling with it being optional up until you get blocked out by non-completion. It's kind of weird picking up two different plot threads at once with Minfilia in quite different moods (unless they've fixed that oddity).

I guess it means you can be queuing for the trials while progressing MSQ alongside it, but still.

I'm surprised they didn't make them MSQ as well. I've had to talk new players through finding and unlocking these trials several times as many don't bother with optional quests. Or they'll start the questline but not finish it (say, stopping after unlocking Ifrit Hard but never actually running it since the quest ends with the unlock) and be lost on where to continue it. Making them part of the MSQ, or just making that questline a branching path of the MSQ to avoid needing any rewrites would make the progression a lot less confusing for new players.

[tracytigress]

No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

[DPZ2]

No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

The fact that they're required for the first phase of the ARR relic weapon also has a bit to do with their placement.

[Iscah]

Maybe they need an extra level of quest marker - MSQ icon in silver instead of gold, or something.

[MistakeNot]

The fact that they're required for the first phase of the ARR relic weapon also has a bit to do with their placement.

Possibly. I suspect most new players won't bother doing the ARR Relic weapons nowadays, and those who do care about those weapons will often have done the HM trials before embarking on the relic weapon quests - thus needing to do the trials twice.

I am almost inclined to suggest that the first part of the ARR relic weapons quest be integrated in the MSQ, and the HM versions of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda with it.
That would solve many problems, but would also add a bunch of extra grinding to the MSQ which might not be appreciated by everyone. Not that the first part of the relic weapon quest is all that grindy, but it is still a bunch of extra stuff to do.

[Stepjam]

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

The reason is because Thancred, Y'shtola, and Papalymo/Yda give you the quests, and they can't remain in the waking sands indefinitely like Urianger can.

They could of course give the quests to someone else to give out, buuuut I'm okay with them staying in. They are good for new players to see how trials will work from then on. Being dropped into King Mog as their first 8man could be overwhelming, but to replay 3 familiar fights but with harder mechanics and more players is a good way to ease into hard trials.

[TheMightyMollusk]

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

The Crystal Tower has nothing to do with the main story until three expansions later, and it's now required. There's even a new cutscene to draw attention to it when the Scions first formally move to Revenant's Toll. Those quests take a lot longer to get through than the HM primals, even if you're skipping all of the cutscenes..

[Iscah]

I always felt like Crystal Tower was important, long before Shadowbringers, simply because it fills in part of Cid and Nero's story - especially Nero's. It's our first introduction to the prospect that, being newly unemployed by the Empire, he might now be a neutral force or even an ally.