Why are duo's allowed to be so toxic in dungeons?

[Vyrerus]

People who group together for content don't always agree on votes. Taking away their option to vote helps no one.

Majority is majority, even if they're being scummy about it. If you think you have proof that they're doing it to harass you or something, report it. Otherwise, fair is fair.

They usually do, because they are friends or lovers with the same mindset and similar perspectives. What I propose doesn't take away their vote, just their ability to be shitty. They'd still get 1 vote as a collective. Which if it was a 3 man pre-made, would be the only vote and still equal a kick. If it was a couple and 1 stranger versus another stranger, it would still hinge on majority, the stranger would just have to be in agreement to the couple, rather than the couple getting to lay down the law.

I report it anytime a couple kicks me. It is infrequent, but it still happens several times to me a year. And I witness it happen several times to the other guy in party several times a year also. Sometimes for disagreements in chat. Other times because I pulled too much or something silly like that. I have never seen a couple initiate a kick and disagree on it.

[Doozer]

They usually do, because they are friends or lovers with the same mindset and similar perspectives. What I propose doesn't take away their vote, just their ability to be shitty. They'd still get 1 vote as a collective. Which if it was a 3 man pre-made, would be the only vote and still equal a kick. If it was a couple and 1 stranger versus another stranger, it would still hinge on majority, the stranger would just have to be in agreement to the couple, rather than the couple getting to lay down the law.

I report it anytime a couple kicks me. It is infrequent, but it still happens several times to me a year. And I witness it happen several times to the other guy in party several times a year also. Sometimes for disagreements in chat. Other times because I pulled too much or something silly like that. I have never seen a couple initiate a kick and disagree on it.

Relying purely on anecdotal evidence is weak at best. They will never implement anything like that anyway. And "one vote as a collective" means you're taking away votes from the individuals, period. Who would choose what to vote? The party leader? What if someone doesn't agree? What if it's an 8-man party, 7 were a premade, and only 3 actually want to kick the person, but one of those three is the one that gets to 'choose'? Do you expect there to be some kind of internal vote? If not, that's not a vote at all.

Just because people can abuse the vote kick system, that doesn't mean the system should be changed. A vote is a vote. If people agree, the reason for them agreeing doesn't make their vote any less valid.

Oh, and... reporting couples because they kicked you? Yikes. Seems like a knee jerk response, honestly.

[Vyrerus]

Relying purely on anecdotal evidence is weak at best. They will never implement anything like that anyway. And "one vote as a collective" means you're taking away votes from the individuals, period. Who would choose what to vote? The party leader? What if someone doesn't agree? What if it's an 8-man party, 7 were a premade, and only 3 actually want to kick the person, but one of those three is the one that gets to 'choose'? Do you expect there to be some kind of internal vote? If not, that's not a vote at all.

Just because people can abuse the vote kick system, that doesn't mean the system should be changed. A vote is a vote. If people agree, the reason for them agreeing doesn't make their vote any less valid.

Oh, and... reporting couples because they kicked you? Yikes. Seems like a knee jerk response, honestly.

My experience is clearly shared, and not just by the OP either. So it's not anecdotal. Secondly, it wouldn't change much. It'd be an internal vote for the premade block, using the same rules as voting now. If no majority is reached, the vote doesn't pass. There's nothing wrong with making couples beholden to the other people in the party, rather than being able to lord over them. It is a common occurrence.

As for an 8 man experience, couples or duos generally have no sway there. It could easily be kept within light party/4-man duty functions only, since it's obvious certain functions can be programmed to be accessible by number of party members or duty requirements anyway.

It is the proper response to harassment and abuse. When the system can be abused so easily and so often it should be changed. It's not really a vote if it doesn't involve all members of the party. Obviously, they could also start including the kick-ee's voice in the vote, thus requiring a 3/4ths majority, rather than a 2/3rds. The way the vote kick system is setup now gives too much power to couples within 4 person duties, is easily abused, and gives no vote to the person being kicked.

[Legion88]

As for an 8 man experience, couples or duos generally have no sway there. It could easily be kept within light party/4-man duty functions only, since it's obvious certain functions can be programmed to be accessible by number of party members or duty requirements anyway.

It is the proper response to harassment and abuse. When the system can be abused so easily and so often it should be changed. It's not really a vote if it doesn't involve all members of the party. Obviously, they could also start including the kick-ee's voice in the vote, thus requiring a 3/4ths majority, rather than a 2/3rds. The way the vote kick system is setup now gives too much power to couples within 4 person duties, is easily abused, and gives no vote to the person being kicked.

You have a simple problem, how to handle a draw in votes?
Vote again? Go through with the kick? Cancel the kick?

How it is set up now is that there is always an odd number of votes and only 2 options to decide, so it will always end in a majority vote and never draws, which is preferable for fast decision making instead of making it long, convoluted and save against abuse.
But yeah, if the change the vote system like this I want to be free to leave the party without being punished for leaving a unpleasent environment.

[Vyrerus]

You have a simple problem, how to handle a draw in votes?
Vote again? Go through with the kick? Cancel the kick?

How it is set up now is that there is always an odd number of votes and only 2 options to decide, so it will always end in a majority vote and never draws, which is preferable for fast decision making instead of making it long, convoluted and save against abuse.
But yeah, if the change the vote system like this I want to be free to leave the party without being punished for leaving a unpleasent environment.

The system already handles draws. If a draw happens, the vote kick does not occur. Draws happen if someone disconnects during the vote kick.

[Legion88]

The system already handles draws. If a draw happens, the vote kick does not occur. Draws happen if someone disconnects during the vote kick.

No, if someone doesn't vote it is handled as voting No, the same happens for people who disconnect during the vote and didn't vote up to their disconnect.