Speculation on Eden 9-12

[TheMightyMollusk]

(Namely the Warring Triad, with Sephirot being Life, Zurvan being Time and Sophia being knowledge, at least to my unerstanding),

Sephirot represents life and death, Sophia represents balance and harmony, and Zurvan represents punishment and judgement (specifically, over other deities, hence his dialogue about how he "standeth above all other gods"). Time is Alexander's thing.

[TheRealQuah]

2 months to the day I said that and we got the Warrior of Light... Well I was on the right lines at least, from what I know of dissidia all the fighters are summoned.


Something that has been bothering me about Eden- Is it truly alive or not? Ryne could detect power from it like a Sin Eater, but immediately after getting to it we found it was a machine. A partly sentient one admittedly which is why its fought against Ryne's will in addition to taking more than was intended when creating the primals.

We also don't know why it caused the flood of light. It certainly has the potential to cause the flood and is indeed the only plausible cause left. On its own it can change the elements in an area. The ascians would have absolutely loved Eden if they weren't already aware of it- if it can undo a world of light, then it could undo a world of darkness as well- the void. Then it would have just been a matter of moving/recreating Eden to the source and shard of choice and they'd have been able to cause rejoinings at will

Which brings an interesting question- would time become an element that we summon, in an effort to speed up growth of the empty or to try and realign the different aether currents so the land develops evenly instead of just in patches
We absolutely will end up fighting the fairy again. I just hope its not via a daft reason like we did eden shiva.

Eden would not work in the Thirteenth. It works on the First because the First has an abundance of aether. The Thirteenth is devoid of Aether completely.

[Cilia]

Honestly, this is one of the hanging plotlines I'm most interested in because we just don't know how it's going to go. The mission to revitalize the Empty's aether to eventually make it habitable again has been accomplished, but there are still hanging plot threads the characters don't seem terribly concerned about (the context that led to Eden initiating the Flood, where it came from, and solving the mystery behind Gaia's missing memories).

Gaia shares characteristics with various VIII characters, not just Ultimecia. Like Squall she puts up a standoffish front to hide her insecurities, has inner monologues, and acts recklessly when those she cares for are in danger; like Rinoa she's a spoiled rich girl initially in over her head; like Laguna she relies on a "faerie" for extra power in times of crisis; and like all the SeeD characters (except Irvine) she has amnesia. Ultimecia's influence is noted, though whether it's meant to be particularly significant or not I could not say.

Moving forward? Again, couldn't say. Alls I know is, I'm expecting Griever to make an appearance, and will be super disappointed if we don't fight Ultimecia in some capacity (if only for a face-melting remix of The Extreme from Soken). She might not be a very popular villain antagonist due to her very limited screen time and obtuse motivations, but damn if Ultimecia didn't leave an impression through her sheer power and stubbornness during that limited time she had.

[Saix027]

2 months to the day I said that and we got the Warrior of Light... Well I was on the right lines at least, from what I know of dissidia all the fighters are summoned.


Something that has been bothering me about Eden- Is it truly alive or not? Ryne could detect power from it like a Sin Eater, but immediately after getting to it we found it was a machine. A partly sentient one admittedly which is why its fought against Ryne's will in addition to taking more than was intended when creating the primals.

We also don't know why it caused the flood of light. It certainly has the potential to cause the flood and is indeed the only plausible cause left. On its own it can change the elements in an area. The ascians would have absolutely loved Eden if they weren't already aware of it- if it can undo a world of light, then it could undo a world of darkness as well- the void. Then it would have just been a matter of moving/recreating Eden to the source and shard of choice and they'd have been able to cause rejoinings at will

Which brings an interesting question- would time become an element that we summon, in an effort to speed up growth of the empty or to try and realign the different aether currents so the land develops evenly instead of just in patches
We absolutely will end up fighting the fairy again. I just hope its not via a daft reason like we did eden shiva.

It could be simliar to Alexander, it also was a machine mostly as primal but had the mind of one of the Au'ra, maybe Gaia used to be the core or the one possesng her acted as one.

[Crushnight]

Honestly, this is one of the hanging plotlines I'm most interested in because we just don't know how it's going to go. The mission to revitalize the Empty's aether to eventually make it habitable again has been accomplished, but there are still hanging plot threads the characters don't seem terribly concerned about (the context that led to Eden initiating the Flood, where it came from, and solving the mystery behind Gaia's missing memories).

Gaia shares characteristics with various VIII characters, not just Ultimecia. Like Squall she puts up a standoffish front to hide her insecurities, has inner monologues, and acts recklessly when those she cares for are in danger; like Rinoa she's a spoiled rich girl initially in over her head; like Laguna she relies on a "faerie" for extra power in times of crisis; and like all the SeeD characters (except Irvine) she has amnesia. Ultimecia's influence is noted, though whether it's meant to be particularly significant or not I could not say.

Moving forward? Again, couldn't say. Alls I know is, I'm expecting Griever to make an appearance, and will be super disappointed if we don't fight Ultimecia in some capacity (if only for a face-melting remix of The Extreme from Soken). She might not be a very popular villain antagonist due to her very limited screen time and obtuse motivations, but damn if Ultimecia didn't leave an impression through her sheer power and stubbornness during that limited time she had.

It has been awhile since I did the chapter on DFFOO but Ultimecia posed as a disembodied voice (faerie) to Noel to help him find his way as she apparently felt kinship with him being all alone.

This loneliness she goes on to admit within her personal event/chapter story to the Heroes, but everyone is thinking it is just a ploy of hers to compress time again.

If Ultimecia were to appear she could tie in with Gaia's loneliness prior to meeting Ryne given Gaia's backstory at the moment.

Ultimecia in FFVIII is quite basic as a villain, but in everything since she seemingly has deeper motivation than what was originally told, this extra stuff helps me like her more also helps The Extreme is one of my favourite FF tracks ever and her final form gives inspiration to Anima from FFX.

[Cilia]

It has been awhile since I did the chapter on DFFOO but Ultimecia posed as a disembodied voice (faerie) to Noel to help him find his way as she apparently felt kinship with him being all alone.

This loneliness she goes on to admit within her personal event/chapter story to the Heroes, but everyone is thinking it is just a ploy of hers to compress time again.

If Ultimecia were to appear she could tie in with Gaia's loneliness prior to meeting Ryne given Gaia's backstory at the moment.

Ultimecia in FFVIII is quite basic as a villain, but in everything since she seemingly has deeper motivation than what was originally told, this extra stuff helps me like her more also helps The Extreme is one of my favourite FF tracks ever and her final form gives inspiration to Anima from FFX.

Don't misunderstand - it's not that Ultimecia's motivations are unknown or unknowable, they just aren't clearly spelled out in VIII itself due to the story focusing more on Squall and Rinoa's romance. She also acts through proxies and rarely speaks to the protagonists, so you have to read between the lines the few times she does so (or get the guidebook) to understand her intentions.

Basically, Ultimecia causes the events of the game, which are a big temporal loop - due to her use of Junction Machine Ellone to mess with the past, Ultimecia indirectly sows the idea of SeeD and heightens the already-present hatred and mistrust of Sorceresses (due to the actions of others such as Adel); when she's born and it's found out she's a Sorceress, Ultimecia is persecuted until she snaps and decides to become the monster everyone made her out to be. Thanks to being in the future Ultimecia knows how the events of the game are supposed to play out, so she uses Junction Machine Ellone in order to try and avert her fate, starting the cycle over again.

You can only pick up on this if you know she's possessing Edea for the first two discs, given it's the only times she speaks to the protagonists before they meet her in person for the final battle. It's also never clearly spelled out - you have to put it together from what she says, and that ain't easy because she says so little and it comes across as very cryptic if you don't have the context. (The Ultimania companion book spells it out.)

I can't speak much to Ultimecia's personality (because she displays so little of it in both VIII and Dissidia), but Gaia's inner monologue on loneliness is almost paraphrasing the same one Squall gives to Rinoa when she falls comatose after the end of Disc 2 in VIII. (Specifically about how much she wanted to be left alone, but now that she actually is alone, she realizes how much the people in her life mean to her.)

[LineageRazor]

Eden would not work in the Thirteenth. It works on the First because the First has an abundance of aether. The Thirteenth is devoid of Aether completely.

This has been brought up before. The First does NOT have an abundance of Aether. It has a normal amount of Aether. However, the Aether has been polarized toward the Umbral state to the point where it is unusable and static.

As for the Thirteenth, while it's been stated it has a lack of Aether, what this likely means is that it, too, has a lack of USEABLE Aether, as the Aether on the Thirteenth was polarized toward the Astral state to the point where it is unusable and chaotic. The creatures (Voidsent) from the Thirteenth are aether-starved because, while there's Aether all around them, it is unusable. A bit like dying of thirst at sea - water all around, but not a drop to drink. So, the Voidsent need to break through into other Shards and the Source in order to feed.

In light of this, it's entirely possible that Eden could be used to recover the Thirteenth Shard. It's also possible that the Ascians built it to do exactly that, then repurposed it for use in Rejoining the First. If we DO use Eden on the Thirteenth, though - just as our efforts on the First, we won't see significant results within our lifetimes. It will be a multi-generational process to turn back what the flood did. There will be no shortage of Voidsent for the duration of the game's lifetime. However, there will be hope for the future, within the game's setting!

I think it's a definite possibility that, at the end of the Raid cycle, Gaia will take Eden to the Thirteenth to begin work on restoring that Shard. And possibly take Ryne with her, so they can be besties forever.

[DamianFatale]

This has been brought up before. The First does NOT have an abundance of Aether. It has a normal amount of Aether. However, the Aether has been polarized toward the Umbral state to the point where it is unusable and static.

As for the Thirteenth, while it's been stated it has a lack of Aether, what this likely means is that it, too, has a lack of USEABLE Aether, as the Aether on the Thirteenth was polarized toward the Astral state to the point where it is unusable and chaotic. The creatures (Voidsent) from the Thirteenth are aether-starved because, while there's Aether all around them, it is unusable. A bit like dying of thirst at sea - water all around, but not a drop to drink. So, the Voidsent need to break through into other Shards and the Source in order to feed.

In light of this, it's entirely possible that Eden could be used to recover the Thirteenth Shard. It's also possible that the Ascians built it to do exactly that, then repurposed it for use in Rejoining the First. If we DO use Eden on the Thirteenth, though - just as our efforts on the First, we won't see significant results within our lifetimes. It will be a multi-generational process to turn back what the flood did. There will be no shortage of Voidsent for the duration of the game's lifetime. However, there will be hope for the future, within the game's setting!

I think it's a definite possibility that, at the end of the Raid cycle, Gaia will take Eden to the Thirteenth to begin work on restoring that Shard. And possibly take Ryne with her, so they can be besties forever.

The void as a shard does seem like a possible expansion. We literally have two npcs that come from it on our side.

[TheMightyMollusk]

The problem is that they're both hidden behind optional content. While making the Warring Triad mandatory for Unukalhai is easy enough, can you imagine the rage if everyone had to complete all four level 80 role quests for Ciella?

[LineageRazor]

The problem is that they're both hidden behind optional content. While making the Warring Triad mandatory for Unukalhai is easy enough, can you imagine the rage if everyone had to complete all four level 80 role quests for Ciella?

This is actually solvable with an extra dialogue option or two, ala Estinien's treatment in Heavensward. You don't need to have run through the Dragoon quests to play the Heavensward MSQ - but if you have, Estinien recognizes you from those quests. (And if you have not, and run the Dragoon quests AFTER finishing the MSQ, he doesn't recognize you there. This is typical for this game - all older quests are assumed to have happened "in the past", regardless of when you choose to do them as a player.)

In the case of Ciella, all they have to do is have her step forward and out herself as the ward of an Ascian. If you've already done the Role Quests, that's peachy - it's all stuff you already know. If not, no matter - this is the point where you learn. If you go back and do the Role Quests later, they'll be unchanged, because they're older quests. Even though you're doing them now, they actually happened in the past, before Ciella outed herself.

I was actually a bit surprised they didn't do this for G'raha Tia - but then, the Crystal Tower itself is a pretty big part of the expansion, so that could be why they decided to make the Crystal Tower Raids a prerequisite. They wanted folks to know the story before going in, because it would take a lot less explanation. In the case of Estinien, "Nidhoggkilled his family" is really all you need to know to explain is presence there.