6.0 Summoner Speculation

[dinnertime]

Totally agree about kit synergy, too. I know XIV SMN doesn't have to adhere strictly to everything that defines SMN in past iterations through FF, but if we're going to be the DoT mage, they need to integrate into the kit better than just "this one skill will refresh when you trance, and this other one skill hits harder when DoTs are ticking, but your entire skillset otherwise is totally unrelated". It wouldn't shock me to have SMN reworked to move DoTs over to a new job entirely in favor of something else, but that's honestly a pipe dream that feels very unlikely, so I'm not resting on it lol.

It's not even a DoT mage anymore. Over the years the DoTs have little involvement with everything else that I wouldn't be too surprised if they removed it entirely in the next expansion. Bard has more mechanics going around with their DoTs than Summoner does.

[SweetPete]

Summoner is a mess. It’s DPS kit is all over the place and the egis are terrible. I’m tired of the pet ghosting and abilities queuing that the pets may or may it execute. What I want in 6.0 is for pets to go away and give us a Demi trance rotation. DoTs to go away too. Just seems so out of place on summoner. I’m truly hoping for a mini rework of the job. I really want summoner to be an actual summoner. Not a dot mage or 2nd hand wow warlock. It’s fine to summon. There are so many primals in the game now that summoner can summon. Not sure why they sticking us with these egi pets. It’s time to go.

[HeulGDarian]

Question: what do you think theyll do with summoner
Almost everyones answer : What they want them to do with summoner

Theyll rework it again in order to fit another demi , assuming they still go with the 3 rule. Hopefully they understand that current demi system is stupid and its just stupid ,cause with current logic adding demis just makes rotation timer +1min. The egi gameplay will propably get some tweaks , not rework just tweaks cause it seems the ruin 4 resource management is made to stay. Energy drain will either get removed or reversed , hopefully if they remove it theyll replace it with something.
Worst case scenario the job will be oversimplified but it will never be remade from scratch. Like it or not the job is involved with alot of plot and giving good justification and explanation to its design , it cant be reworked and removed without leaving a massive plothole and alienating alot of peeps.

[Cled-cat]

Summoner is a mess. It’s DPS kit is all over the place and the egis are terrible. I’m tired of the pet ghosting and abilities queuing that the pets may or may it execute. What I want in 6.0 is for pets to go away and give us a Demi trance rotation. DoTs to go away too. Just seems so out of place on summoner. I’m truly hoping for a mini rework of the job. I really want summoner to be an actual summoner. Not a dot mage or 2nd hand wow warlock. It’s fine to summon. There are so many primals in the game now that summoner can summon. Not sure why they sticking us with these egi pets. It’s time to go.

I agree on everything really, the pet ghosting is so infuriating and it makes the job an annoyance to play. Just nuke the Egi’s I say.

[KaerisKlyne]

Question: what do you think theyll do with summoner
Almost everyones answer : What they want them to do with summoner

Theyll rework it again in order to fit another demi , assuming they still go with the 3 rule. Hopefully they understand that current demi system is stupid and its just stupid ,cause with current logic adding demis just makes rotation timer +1min. The egi gameplay will propably get some tweaks , not rework just tweaks cause it seems the ruin 4 resource management is made to stay. Energy drain will either get removed or reversed , hopefully if they remove it theyll replace it with something.
Worst case scenario the job will be oversimplified but it will never be remade from scratch. Like it or not the job is involved with alot of plot and giving good justification and explanation to its design , it cant be reworked and removed without leaving a massive plothole and alienating alot of peeps.

What plot exactly outside of the job quests? Despite being Allagan in origin, almost everything we know about SMN is self-contained in the job quests for it. Those are the only things that would need hefty rewrites and even then it would only be the single point about aetheric limitations capping us at 3 egi. The demis have no rule of 3 because the trance system is a way for us to circumvent our own limited aether re: the egi dilemma.

Just like AST cards, SMN could easily see a total overhaul. Similarly, they could move the Ruin IV proc to nearly anything else depending on what they do. It existing has no bearing on what happens with egi moving forward. Everyone's speculations on the future of the job are valid.

[HeulGDarian]

What plot exactly outside of the job quests? Despite being Allagan in origin, almost everything we know about SMN is self-contained in the job quests for it. Those are the only things that would need hefty rewrites and even then it would only be the single point about aetheric limitations capping us at 3 egi. The demis have no rule of 3 because the trance system is a way for us to circumvent our own limited aether re: the egi dilemma.

Just like AST cards, SMN could easily see a total overhaul. Similarly, they could move the Ruin IV proc to nearly anything else depending on what they do. It existing has no bearing on what happens with egi moving forward. Everyone's speculations on the future of the job are valid.

Hmmm im pretty sure you wont care if i tell you cause if you did youd already know. But lets try to do the impossible.
Summoning isnt any different than what an arcanist does when he summons his carbuncles.
This doesnt just include egis and Demis, this includes every single summoned primal in the entire game. In heavensward it is hammered that none of those summons are alive or dead that returned back to life all of them are just constructs that use aether , they take the form of the beliefs or to put it better the idea that birthed them, in the carbuncles its a gem, in the egis its the pure essense of a primal , in the demis its using Trance to transform your aether into the aether you attuned to.
During Stormblood were emet and zenos is introduced not only do you learn that it is possible to merge with a primal but you also learn that emet was behind the allagan empire . We also learn what happens if an arcanist isnt focused and in control of his emotions when tataru picked up the arcanist, the summon will run away.
fast forward to Shadowbringers and you learn about the sundering and how little aether exists per world due to to it, this immediately solves another mystery as to why bigger primals are harmfull to the world .later on we learn about the world before the sundering and about creation magic which is what emet is using on his fight as well as with what he created the entire city, inside the fight every ancient is using ruin meaning that there is a connection between creation magic and arcanima an assumption we could have made prior when we noticed lahabrea using shadowflare .
Not only that during the prior dungeon that showed the end of days according to emets memories we can see the extreme of what could happen if an arcanist isnt in control, they can summon their deepest fears without wanting to.
After the 5.0 patch the devs posted some stories , one of those stories explains that what miasma does is block the aether from someones body using our own which causes their lungs to collapse, while another is About emet .
In emets story we learn once again that what they create is constructs, and not only that they can create everything they want except a soul, we also learn that a soul can accidentaly possess our construct though this aint helpfull.
The assumptions of if arcanima is creation magic or not are ending in 5.3 where elidibus gets asked by yshtola if indeed creation magic is what we now know as summoning to which he replies her assumptions are correct.
Which also means that as long as someone has aether an arcanist can summon just by thinking.

Here you go. also since you mentioned AST cards not a single astro liked that changed , but they dont continue to complain forever they just went ahead and adjusted. i suggest you do the same. When you want to see black you will see black , the truth however is that they wont delete ruin , they wont delete dots and egis will at most be reworked.



Edit.
Almost forgot.
In shadowbrongers we also learn how hydaleyn and zodiark are also primals as well as why they can selfsustain themselves , which is cause they have aether that amounts to more than half the population of the unsundered world. We also learn that echo isnt hydaleyns gift but our own fragmented power that to be triggered we need to remember the old world, the reason it got attributed to hydaleyn was cause the first thing you hear is her calling.
Also the idea part of summoning is explored even more in the eden raids with how our own forgetfullness plus our own prespective creates something vastly different than what the original idea was, like ramuh mixing with ixion and leviathan having 2 heads.


Edit 2
hythlodaeus also remind us that he isnt actually alive and that the only reason he seems more sentient is cause emets mind slipped up and he thought if anyone could be self aware enough of his situation he could.


Edit 3
another thing that i forgot is that since Arcanima is also tied to scholar we can learn from there as well, since both summoner and scholar are just specializations. From there we can learn how Bio work thanks to the latest upgrade , Bio works by using your aether to destroy your opponent at a cellular level , or to put it simpler to perform biolysis. Another thing that needs to be said is that in ff14 there is no such thing as poison magic even malboros bad breath an old poison attack is in fact water and earth attributed. Also japanese tooltips can also give pieces of information , like for example fester in the japanese tooltip translates to miasma explosion if i remember correctly.



Last words id like to stress how overpowered the job actually is , a summoner , this summoner could literally if he had enough aether summon not just a demi of a primal, he could literally cast any spell imaginable or if he was bored he could summon an 8man to fight for him.

[KaerisKlyne]

snip

Absolutely 0% of this impacts the mechanical playability and lore specific to the Summoner job, and I will kindly ask you not to disrespectfully assume that I don't know what I'm talking about after playing the job since its inception, watching every cutscene, reading all the lore, and frequenting the forums. You're conflating the lore around primals with the lore specific to how the job functions, and that's not what's being discussed. And...the ASTs do continue to be vocal about their dislike for the card changes, actually. Like, a lot. Like, everywhere. Like, every chance someone who dislikes the change gets to talk about it, they do.

I remember why I lurk more than interact on these forums now.

[HeulGDarian]

Absolutely 0% of this impacts the mechanical playability and lore specific to the Summoner job, and I will kindly ask you not to disrespectfully assume that I don't know what I'm talking about after playing the job since its inception, watching every cutscene, reading all the lore, and frequenting the forums. You're conflating the lore around primals with the lore specific to how the job functions, and that's not what's being discussed. And...the ASTs do continue to be vocal about their dislike for the card changes, actually. Like, a lot. Like, everywhere. Like, every chance someone who dislikes the change gets to talk about it, they do.

I remember why I lurk more than interact on these forums now.

Ofc you do.

[Marxam]

1. Emerald (magic ranged), Topaz (support), Ruby (physical melee) carbuncle reworked into magicite that you attune Primal's of your choosing. Egi animations is purely glamour and skill set is tied to the magicite. Ex. Attune Ramuh to Emerald magicite for magic dmg or Topaz for support will be the same as Carbuncle attuned to the same magicite.

2. Carbuncle is your starting summon but can be attuned to different magicite or removed entirely for other pirmal egis.

3. Dreadwyrm Trance reworked into Primal Trance. Exact same as Dreadwyrm Trance but summons a larger version of the currently summoned egi. Ex. Shiva-egi attuned to Ruby magicite will become Shiva when in Primal Trance and uses Diamond Dust when you enkindle. Trance ends upon use.

4. Judgment Trance summons Alexander. Recast timer shared with Bahamut, similar to Dreadwyrm trance and Phoenix. Auto attacks deal aoe instead of single target. Trance rotation at lvl 90 will be Primal > Bahamut > Phoenix > Alexander > repeat.

[Jukebox12]

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if you think about it what he said does makes sense. you my friend do not like it cause he showed you up