The Echo and the Ascians

[Vulcwen]

Actually, the Amaurotians (and all Ancients) were not immortal, the shades of the phantom Amaurot and Hades's story on the Lodestone that was part of the 'Tales From the Shadows' make that explicitly clear, that the Ancients had a finite life span, and that they procreated and gave birth, grew as children into adults and eventually died at the end of their lives, their souls returning to the planet (which they called the 'Underworld') just like the current races.

What was different though is they had far, far greater personal wellsprings of aether, which is what powered their creation magic to a level far exceeding the greatest magic capable in the present day, and that even a newborn baby was capable of wielding such power inately, a scary thought.

They only became immortal beings of pure aether after Zodiark was summoned and 'rewrote the laws of nature', which a handful of Ancients became the Ascians. But back before the Terminus and the Sundering, they most definetely were mortal beings, who were born, lived and died like we do. Their lifespans were probably far greater, but still were finite.

We don't exactly know what the nature of things was for the Ancients. All we know is that there was a cycle of life before the Final Days. For now I'm suspecting (speculation warning: ) they did have finite lifespans for their physical bodies, but their souls were immortal, mind and memories included (maybe rediscovered when a new body grows up, like anamnesis, maybe just intact in general). Death would be an extended rest for them until their soul would eventually be reincarnate. This means in the view of society, people would be essentially immortal. It'd also explain why they'd be so willing to give their lives for a cause, only to be surprised by the fact that no, they'd not reincarnate with memories intact anymore. Only the horror of the Final Days itself would be so strong, the memory of which persisted through the sundering, thus allowing one to reclaim part of what they once could, with the Echo.

[HeulGDarian]

We don't exactly know what the nature of things was for the Ancients. All we know is that there was a cycle of life before the Final Days. For now I'm suspecting (speculation warning: ) they did have finite lifespans for their physical bodies, but their souls were immortal, mind and memories included (maybe rediscovered when a new body grows up, like anamnesis, maybe just intact in general). Death would be an extended rest for them until their soul would eventually be reincarnate. This means in the view of society, people would be essentially immortal. It'd also explain why they'd be so willing to give their lives for a cause, only to be surprised by the fact that no, they'd not reincarnate with memories intact anymore. Only the horror of the Final Days itself would be so strong, the memory of which persisted through the sundering, thus allowing one to reclaim part of what they once could, with the Echo.

I searched a bit . their souls are definitely immortal. Ill also put some more info from the wiki of Emet https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Solus_zos_Galvus :
He remains convinced of the importance of the balance between Light and Dark and considers his people the definition of perfection while viewing the "broken" races mere imperfect parodies of his kin. He extends this contempt to his mortal grandson, Varis, having no real interest in the Empire outside its intended purpose of spreading chaos. His resentment towards Varis also stems from him resembling his firstborn son, whose death serves as a final reminder of mortal imperfection in Emet-Selch's eyes. However, he does show interest in certain mortals who underwent the Umbral Calamity numerous times.

Also inside it says they didnt rewrite the laws of nature ill copy from the wiki again :
Falling into despair when seeing their world besieged by a calamity from within, he joined his fellow Convocation members and devised a plan to halt the calamity: summon the will of the planet, the primal Zodiark. The price to accomplish this feat of summoning would be grave, and caused one member to leave in dissent. Half of their people were sacrificed to offer up the necessary aether to complete the ritual.The deity succeeded in its primary purpose, but then enthralled Hades and the others into becoming his devout followers. The Convocation resolved to sacrifice another half of their people to replenish their ruined world. Next, for Hades and the Convocation to restore the lives of those originally sacrificed, Zodiark would require even more aether; aether that would come from the new life being born into the world. This disturbed the dissenting member of the Convocation, who felt that the sacrificial costs were already too great, and that the world now belonged to the lives birthed in it. An opposing group of Amaurotians who felt similarly thus summoned Hydaelyn in opposition to Zodiark, and the resulting conflict ended with Hydaelyn's final attack shattering reality, sundering the world and nearly all life on it into the Source and its thirteen shards.


Ill try to search a bit more though im quite certain they indeed were immortal since like the wiki says he views death as an imperfection

[MrThinker]

I searched a bit . their souls are definitely immortal. Ill also put some more info from the wiki of Emet https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Solus_zos_Galvus :
He remains convinced of the importance of the balance between Light and Dark and considers his people the definition of perfection while viewing the "broken" races mere imperfect parodies of his kin. He extends this contempt to his mortal grandson, Varis, having no real interest in the Empire outside its intended purpose of spreading chaos. His resentment towards Varis also stems from him resembling his firstborn son, whose death serves as a final reminder of mortal imperfection in Emet-Selch's eyes. However, he does show interest in certain mortals who underwent the Umbral Calamity numerous times.

Also inside it says they didnt rewrite the laws of nature ill copy from the wiki again :
Falling into despair when seeing their world besieged by a calamity from within, he joined his fellow Convocation members and devised a plan to halt the calamity: summon the will of the planet, the primal Zodiark. The price to accomplish this feat of summoning would be grave, and caused one member to leave in dissent. Half of their people were sacrificed to offer up the necessary aether to complete the ritual.The deity succeeded in its primary purpose, but then enthralled Hades and the others into becoming his devout followers. The Convocation resolved to sacrifice another half of their people to replenish their ruined world. Next, for Hades and the Convocation to restore the lives of those originally sacrificed, Zodiark would require even more aether; aether that would come from the new life being born into the world. This disturbed the dissenting member of the Convocation, who felt that the sacrificial costs were already too great, and that the world now belonged to the lives birthed in it. An opposing group of Amaurotians who felt similarly thus summoned Hydaelyn in opposition to Zodiark, and the resulting conflict ended with Hydaelyn's final attack shattering reality, sundering the world and nearly all life on it into the Source and its thirteen shards.


Ill try to search a bit more though im quite certain they indeed were immortal since like the wiki says he views death as an imperfection

I'd like to say that the wiki is filled with speculation, outdated info and misinterpretation from the player perspective. The line I bolded being an example. The dissident of the convocation, or 'defector', left the convocation before they summoned Zodiark for reasons yet unknown, and we have learned little to nothing about them besides. As such, we have no idea on their stance, though it is highly likely we will learn more about them in 5.3.

[HeulGDarian]

ok since i dont want to keep editing the same comment ill share a bit more of my findings.
What the sundering did was split the world into 13 equal parts. It affects every single attribute of everything, this includes the soul. I also searched a bit and found out that most races can live up to 100-120 years since the ascians have 13 times that lifespan that means they can live for up to 1300-1560 years!!!
heres the link for the interview in which it is said : https://gamerescape.com/2014/10/18/f...nel-live-blog/
and heres the thing they say if you re lazy to search : The five races can live to 100-120 biologically, but most people don’t live much longer than 50. Elezen have longer lifespans.

[HeulGDarian]

I'd like to say that the wiki is filled with speculation, outdated info and misinterpretation from the player perspective. The line I bolded being an example. The dissident of the convocation, or 'defector', left the convocation before they summoned Zodiark for reasons yet unknown, and we have learned little to nothing about them besides. As such, we have no idea on their stance, though it is highly likely we will learn more about them in 5.3.

ill go check that as well then to confirm it

[MrThinker]

ok since i dont want to keep editing the same comment ill share a bit more of my findings.
What the sundering did was split the world into 13 equal parts. It affects every single attribute of everything, this includes the soul. I also searched a bit and found out that most races can live up to 100-120 years since the ascians have 13 times that lifespan that means they can live for up to 1300-1560 years!!!
heres the link for the interview in which it is said : https://gamerescape.com/2014/10/18/f...nel-live-blog/
and heres the thing they say if you re lazy to search : The five races can live to 100-120 biologically, but most people don’t live much longer than 50. Elezen have longer lifespans.

Another thing to note, The Sundering was around 12000 years ago, so at the time of ARR, Lahabrea, Elidibus and Emet-Selch have been around for that long, and not to forget that they were already adults when the Sundering happened, so they are definitely even older.

[HeulGDarian]

I'd like to say that the wiki is filled with speculation, outdated info and misinterpretation from the player perspective. The line I bolded being an example. The dissident of the convocation, or 'defector', left the convocation before they summoned Zodiark for reasons yet unknown, and we have learned little to nothing about them besides. As such, we have no idea on their stance, though it is highly likely we will learn more about them in 5.3.

Oh ye youre correct hythlodaeus says it was 13 at the time. The rest however is true i checked emets dialogs

[HeulGDarian]

Another thing to note, The Sundering was around 12000 years ago, so at the time of ARR, Lahabrea, Elidibus and Emet-Selch have been around for that long, and not to forget that they were already adults when the Sundering happened, so they are definitely even older.

they are older cause they are jumping bodies, the question i was trying to find out is if the complete people were immortal physically. Emets said they live for an age (something i was about to put on the last comment before we started talking) so i simply took the fact that the sundering just split us into 13 same fractions of ourselves and searched to find our age to get the number.

[MrThinker]

Oh ye youre correct hythlodaeus says it was 13 at the time. The rest however is true i checked emets dialogs

Yes, but that is to show that the wiki isn't the best source of information, so it is better to go information directly released by square to prove your point: in-game dialogue, lore books, and interviews.

they are older cause they are jumping bodies, the question i was trying to find out is if the complete people were immortal physically. Emets said they live for an age (something i was about to put on the last comment before we started talking) so i simply took the fact that the sundering just split us into 13 same fractions of ourselves and searched to find our age to get the number.

To be perfectly fair, we have no idea if the Sundering dividing us into 14 had an equal effect or exponential effect. Yes it might have divided us into 14, and thus the average body age into 14, but Emet-Selch implies with his dialogue before our journey to Eulmore that Immortality was indeed one of the aspects we lost in being sundered.

[HeulGDarian]

Yes, but that is to show that the wiki isn't the best source of information, so it is better to go information directly released by square to prove your point: in-game dialogue, lore books, and interviews.

well i did went to check in game dialog cut me some slack , just the emet