More classical music less rock please

[Puremallace]

Just saying these guys do Classical remixed better then they do EDM. They are supposed to be making the music fit the boss not the other way around. Like what is Eden Ramuhs theme? Eden Leviathan? Eden Ifrit & Garuda theme they feel the need to go prog rock again but why? It is easily forgettable and all of it just blends together.

Eden should have been called EDM.

Could you ever see John Williams doing prog rock during a Star Wars fight? Oh hey here is this Lord of the Rings soundtrack so lets throw in some EDM. All for mixing up the selection and doing different stuff but this is not an FPS shooter or dance dance revolution.

[phantomr23]

Just saying these guys do Classical remixed better then they do EDM. They are supposed to be making the music fit the boss not the other way around. Like what is Eden Ramuhs theme? Eden Leviathan? Eden Ifrit & Garuda theme they feel the need to go prog rock again but why? It is easily forgettable and all of it just blends together.

Eden's all about remixing the old Primals from the WoL's fragmented memories. EDM is an incredibly popular remix genre that is also more traditionally modern than most of the original genres, fitting the updated aesthetic of the pieces. Old Ramuh worked with his theme because it was a slow paced, tank-centric fight that was more him testing you than an actual battle - Eden Ramuh is a fast paced battle against our own idea of Ramuh, hence the remix. Traditional orchestra would not have worked for Eden (except Force Your Way, which you're conveniently ignoring) in the same way it wouldn't have worked for Alexander's steampunk aesthetic. Remember how eScape was the most notable song from Omega, because the hard rock soundtrack fit a lot better than the O12 theme for that version of Omega?

Could you ever see John Williams doing prog rock during a Star Wars fight? Oh hey here is this Lord of the Rings soundtrack so lets throw in some EDM. All for mixing up the selection and doing different stuff but this is not an FPS shooter or dance dance revolution.

This is... just bizarre? You do understand that John William's approach to Star Wars soundtrack was actually quite unique at the time? If we just said "all space music must be slow synth driven atmosphere music" then that would be incredibly limiting, so applying more traditional adventure music was something that made Star Wars stand out. You really think that just because this is an MMO it should have a certain sound - the game with giant robots, mech fights and technology from other worlds? Subversive soundtracks give media a unique aesthetic and the wide variety of styles covered by FFXIV is the main thing that elevates Soken above his contempories.

(Also, E6's theme is not prog rock, please learn what prog rock is before you act like it's overtaking the whole soundtrack).

I was sympathetic to your point at first but now it's devolved to you complaining about an issue that doesn't exist, falsely labelling songs with completely random genres and acting like the soundtrack has somehow lost variety because it has more variety than you would like. Incredible.

[Puremallace]

I named 4 fights in a row that all sound the same. The entire point of a lot of people was that they were mixing it up which they are clearly not. EDM is good in a club scene dancing while on ecstasy. It is just not my preferred genre and I would prefer they go back to their roots.

If we are going to throw out anything that makes sense then lets add some KPOP into the next Ultimate because why not.

[phantomr23]

I named 4 fights in a row that all sound the same. The entire point of a lot of people was that they were mixing it up which they are clearly not. EDM is good in a club scene dancing while on ecstasy. It is just not my preferred genre and I would prefer they go back to their roots.

If we are going to throw out anything that makes sense then lets add some KPOP into the next Ultimate because why not.

You named three fights which are all different genres - fast electronic a la Tekken, Dubstep and a mix of Eurobeat and Chiptune. You also named three fights in a currently 70 song soundtrack which has the Rak'tika Greatwood, Amh Araeng, Innocence, Dohn Mheg, Akadaemia Anyder and Amaurot. What you did is the equivalent of me saying Heavensward didn't have enough variety because Alexander proves it was all rock.

[Iscah]

It makes sense for all the Eden fights to sound similar. They're a set. If you think about previous raid series they reused the same single theme for a lot of the individual fights, especially in the earlier tiers.

[Iscah]

Also, something I have only recently picked up on but realise more and more as I'm aware of it...

Most, if not all, of the game's music has the same tune.

Obviously it varies. Songs are distinct enough that you can say "that's the music from X" or "they mixed Eternal Wind into the Shadowbringers theme" but (unless I am very mistaken and hearing things) the core sequence of notes is the same; it's just a matter of what they do with them.

As far as I can tell, this isn't an FFXIV thing but an FF thing - I played through FF3 recently and it's still the same core tune. So are the orchestrion rolls we have of FFVIII and FFXV. If the Ivalice raid music is from those games, it's there too.

It's a realisation that pulls a few things together - why Shadowbringers has two themes that blur together and I can't decide if the Crystarium day theme is based on 'Shadowbringers' or 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow'. Why Ravana's theme uses "the Mor Dhona field music". Why Toto-Rak's theme reappears in the Lv50 dungeons. How I recognised Sastasha's theme in Anamnesis and my FC mate said they didn't realise and thought it was just the Shadowbringers theme remixed... which set me to recognising that music in original Sastasha and then everywhere.

Obviously at points the similarity between two songs is enough that you notice that one resembles the other. The rest of the time there's enough variety that you don't notice until you look for it and suddenly it's everywhere.

[phantomr23]

Also, something I have only recently picked up on but realise more and more as I'm aware of it...

Most, if not all, of the game's music has the same tune.

Obviously it varies. Songs are distinct enough that you can say "that's the music from X" or "they mixed Eternal Wind into the Shadowbringers theme" but (unless I am very mistaken and hearing things) the core sequence of notes is the same; it's just a matter of what they do with them.

As far as I can tell, this isn't an FFXIV thing but an FF thing - I played through FF3 recently and it's still the same core tune. So are the orchestrion rolls we have of FFVIII and FFXV. If the Ivalice raid music is from those games, it's there too.

It's a realisation that pulls a few things together - why Shadowbringers has two themes that blur together and I can't decide if the Crystarium day theme is based on 'Shadowbringers' or 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow'. Why Ravana's theme uses "the Mor Dhona field music". Why Toto-Rak's theme reappears in the Lv50 dungeons. How I recognised Sastasha's theme in Anamnesis and my FC mate said they didn't realise and thought it was just the Shadowbringers theme remixed... which set me to recognising that music in original Sastasha and then everywhere.

Obviously at points the similarity between two songs is enough that you notice that one resembles the other. The rest of the time there's enough variety that you don't notice until you look for it and suddenly it's everywhere.

Yeah, I'm not sure if you've heard the term (it's not exactly used often) but that's called a motif, and Soken absolutely loves them. Like you mentioned it's quite challenging to pick out until you notice but FFXIV uses them to tie ideas and places together, just a few random examples:

The Weeping City of Mhach is near Mor Dhona, so the climax of the theme uses the Mor Dhona motif.
Sastasha's theme is the theme of many ARR dungeons and generally the theme of "The Source", so it shows up in Anamnesis since that dungeon is us finally beginning to go home.
Every single expansion uses the main motif of the expansion in its final boss theme - even ARR has "The Maker's Ruin", which is our theme, for the first Ultima phase. That song again shows up in Omega M + F to highlight the Warrior of Light.
Every dungeon theme in the entire game from Heavensward on remixes a motif of the area it's in, with one of the few exceptions being The Aetherochemical Research Facility using the Heavensward motif instead.

[Iscah]

Yeah, I'm not sure if you've heard the term (it's not exactly used often) but that's called a motif, and Soken absolutely loves them. Like you mentioned it's quite challenging to pick out until you notice but FFXIV uses them to tie ideas and places together, just a few random examples...

No, I don't think you're understanding.

Even the "different themes" have parallel tunes. Things from other FF games use the same tune.

The "Mor Dhona theme" sounds very close to Ravana's theme. There is no thematic reason for it.

You can just about hear 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' in the Pillars day theme.

Ramuh's theme sounds like the Vanu tribal theme in the Sea of Clouds sounds like 'Heavensward'.

You can even easily hear 'Shadowbringers' boss theme in 'Apocalypsis Noctis' from the FFXV event, or 'Eternal Wind' from FFIII, or the Mor Dhona theme... because it's still using the same tune.


The thing with your specific examples of motifs is that if A, B, C, D and E all have the same motif, you can pick out A and C and talk about how those two have the same motif and it must be because of [thematic reason] when actually everything else has it too.

All three Mhach raids use that motif. Crystal Tower uses it too... and so does Ivalice which is three whole continents away. (And yes the tower is in Mor Dhona but it's also in FFIII which, as I said, also recurringly uses that same theme everywhere.)

You're overthinking the reasoning for using the Sastasha theme - and I do specifically hear the Sastasha theme with the distinct intro. It's there because it's an underwater level and they outright reference the final battle with the Sahagin emerging from grates.

Every area has a motif but you can hear them all in each other.

[phantomr23]

No, I don't think you're understanding.

Even the "different themes" have parallel tunes. Things from other FF games use the same tune.

The "Mor Dhona theme" sounds very close to Ravana's theme. There is no thematic reason for it.

You can just about hear 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' in the Pillars day theme.

Ramuh's theme sounds like the Vanu tribal theme in the Sea of Clouds sounds like 'Heavensward'.

You can even easily hear 'Shadowbringers' boss theme in 'Apocalypsis Noctis' from the FFXV event... because it's still using the same tune.


The thing with your specific examples of motifs is that if A, B, C, D and E all have the same motif, you can pick out A and C and talk about how those two have the same motif and it must be because of [thematic reason] when actually everything else has it too.

All three Mhach raids use that motif. Crystal Tower uses it too... and so does Ivalice which is three whole continents away.

You're overthinking the reasoning for using the Sastasha theme - and I do specifically hear the Sastasha theme with the distinct intro. It's there because it's an underwater level and they outright reference the final battle with the Sahagin emerging from grates.

Every area has a motif but you can hear them all in each other.

Oh, I overthought your point, I'm used to people not quite understanding how motifs work. No, yeah, that's just how music is. The songs aren't that similar at all, it's just that there's only so many melodic patterns that sound good and sometimes your brain mixes things up. I've listened to the soundtracks at least thrice over and I'm afraid I don't hear Mor Dhona in Ravana or Ivalice relating to anything else (I'd be impressed, given Ivalice is just FFT music), though since Mor Dhona is one of the prime "militaristic" songs - it's what Lakeland is based off, that wouldn't be an unsurprising reference.

(Also, you really think it's a coincidence that the penultimate Norvrandt dungeon is based on the first ARR dungeon and that the Sastasha theme shows up in a bunch of ARR dungeons? It's not exactly uncommon to do bookends and have references that work on multiple levels.)

[Gula]

You can even easily hear 'Shadowbringers' boss theme in 'Apocalypsis Noctis' from the FFXV event

I went and re-listened to them and I don't hear it. And you have that in reverse, since FFXV came first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs2emQFAVw

Also which boss theme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKHUcCQ65mg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbS_SILgn00