DRK's changes I want that won't happen.

[cactuarzzzz]

OK I tried remove stormblood drk play style now.

[Hierro]

You didn't. At baseline, you generated MP for one DA every third combo. You could also only spend DA on the third combo step. The rest of your weaves came from a cluttered mess.

You couldn't even dark arts every other word if you tried.

Thank you for proving me right.

[Vyrerus]

Thank you for proving me right.

Oh my Altana, I can't believe I'm going to defend Lyth.

But Lyth didn't prove you right, they showed that you don't know what you're talking about. Stormblood DRK was not the same as Heavensward DRK. SB DRK was easier to play, and there was way more of a Dark Arts focus. Good for somethings, bad for others.

Give me Heavensward DRK any day of the week. More oGCDs to use than any tank ever. Its only issue TP sustainability in real long fights, though you could also resort to less damage efficient magic once that happened anyway. Little bit of an enmity issue after the tank nerf, but if we keep current stupid enmity then it won't matter.

As for the OP, some of those ideas are cool. I would love for Scourge to come back, and I would love for more combos. I'd at least like for blood to generate faster than it does currently. I really rather miss being able to Quietus + Blood Weapon and get like 35~50 blood back depending on pull size. And I definitely miss Blood Price as well.

[ReiMakoto]

I just want HW DRK back, it was the toughest tank to play correctly and wasn't exactly newbie friendly, but man was it crazy fun to play, current DRK has had so many skills pruned and edges sanded off that it has become a shadow of its former glory.

Heavensward DRK whilst very fun will not see a comeback unless there is another overhaul of tanks in general, the reliance on being hit for low blows, reprisal and blood price meant it was MT or bust for optimization which is something the devs are very clear is something they do not want (although I think it should be what they pursue in general). SB DRK was the natural progression of trying to move MT reliance on HW drk, by taking the apm that would have been spent on the reflection actions and clunking it into one skill. Scourge was a casualty of the other dev goal of removing non combo dots from all classes as a way to save buttons and also make debuff management more reasonable on 24 man+ bosses (In HW it was a regular occurance that the "soft cap" was met for debuffs applied to a boss meaning you could not see the debuffs that you applied). And finally the MP drain was changed partly due to accessibility, and also partly because it didn't really mean anything, running out of mana only happened if you werent paying attention same way you overcapped on mana in SB if you weren't paying attention, sure you were punished more in HW, but honestly you were at way more risk of overcapping more often than you ever were at running out in HW.

So whilst many would like HW drk to come back, it would involve the devs walking back on multiple broad changes that effected a lot of jobs not just DRK, DRK was just caught in the unfortunate ven diagram of all of them.

[bundythenoob]

i quite like the idea of bringing back shadowskin as like a baby TBN, but it should probably be carefully tuned so it doesnt make all of the ARR content irrelevant. maybe if content in the game actually posed a challenge then it could be a little more powerful. i also really miss power slash, it had such a cool animation. i wish it had been repurposed as opposed to just outright deleted.

[cactuarzzzz]

i quite like the idea of bringing back shadowskin as like a baby TBN, but it should probably be carefully tuned so it doesnt make all of the ARR content irrelevant. maybe if content in the game actually posed a challenge then it could be a little more powerful. i also really miss power slash, it had such a cool animation. i wish it had been repurposed as opposed to just outright deleted.

We no Longer have Hp restore from Soul Eater as part of our combo anymore since I made it LV60 ogc. So Shadowskin is there to balance that
[ I don't feel it's like going to be more op than Camouflage [GNB LV6] and Sheltron [PLD LV35] in ARR. Thank you for take your time to analysis this idea ^_^.]

[shao32]

Well lets see:

-Darkside being back as a stance is nice, im not sure about the cost of 500mp per GCD but if the MP generation is strong to keep it up why not but don't feel it adds anything relevant

-blood price being and aoe it's nice but i think the gains will be to dependent of the encounter, bosses like current eden turn 3 will hurt a lot DRK MP generation due the low amount of damage in single target and long periods of mechanics that can be done without reciving damage will force the job to hold the skill to much, so it would end being a bit lackbuster specially if many MP come from this.

-having dark arts its fine but most of you suggested effects are never gonna being used, mostly bcs damage is king so it will end everything going to bloodspiller and plunge, i recomend look at the whole system contribution, or you make it full suporting the dps part of the job or you make it supporting non dps stuff of the job, if you mixed both the player will always chose the dps and then complaing they have to waste damage for doing something others do for free.

-i preffer remove rampart and recover shadowskin as our 20% mitigation variant but it's nice having a sustitute of TBN early, the dark arts effect as i mentioned before.

-dark mind/missionary well as i mentioned before, still limited magic damage only so single target darkmind will have low usability.

-living dead and sole survivor arebetter than now so yeah

-unmend and plunge nothing to say since the same dark arts stuff.

-soul eater new carve and spit so, meh, dark arts stuff again.

-the combos, well i have a question about the blue combo, the 3k MP is with or without the 1500mp cost of darkside? and i have a problem with the animations.
blue combo if you notice spining slash and syphon strike are the same animation but shypon have an extra slash at the end, it feel ackward doing the same animation twice with a slight diference at the end, i will change spining slash anitmation for another one.

-salted abyssal drain sounds cool in general.

-nameless skill sounds a bit hard to optimice with raid buffs? i guess the point is that downs matter and just use it at when you own kit demand it, idk the rectast of abyssal drain, i assume is still at 60s so in general aling well but i will increase the marging to 5-7s for high ping players you know.

-aoe combo remember me to infuriate with the recast reduction.

-bloodweapon offer to little for the 90s recast, in aoe you will use it more oftent, on single target will feel unrewarding and bloodspiller/dark passenger are fine.

final thoughts:

seems like DRK will use 2 combos each time all the time generating MP than can only be used on Dark arts and TBN (as far i know) with at least 4 oGCD all of them at the 60s mark.

mmm depending of the MP generated DRK could feel really empty betwen each 60s mark just exactly like now with no MP to expend or generating to much MP and being limited on his uses since bloodspiller need blood for being used and plunge being on recast, the rest of the Dark arts uses are purely defensive or selfhealing so if you generate to much MP you could end wasting MP while you wait the desired skills are being able to being used in the OT position, i recomend the need of put at least 1 dark art use on one of the combos to activate the other for example.

i imagine living shadow remains the same, the aoe remains the same 1-2 but even more simple somehow, and i doubt the contribution of blood price to the MP economy, if i missed any important detail would be nice to know ^^

So whilst many would like HW drk to come back, it would involve the devs walking back on multiple broad changes that effected a lot of jobs not just DRK, DRK was just caught in the unfortunate ven diagram of all of them.

If we only take the conflict mechanics that are basically the procs/beneficts from recive damage, aka low blow, reprisal and blood price (skills that no longer do damage btw) they could bring back basically HW DRK without changing anything gameplay wise and for me having 97% of HW DRK flow it's better that having 0%, besaid the scourge manteinance woulnt make 24 man raids being a chore when only 3 tanks can acces the duty at the same time and RNG gods have to be really whimsical to bring 3 at the same time, so it's actually more factible that it's looks, and the mp drain don't really affect the rest of the job, still there or removed it's just affect numbers on the economy that can be compensated somwhere else.

[cactuarzzzz]

Thank you very much shao, but this point I consider give up any dream and hope now.
However if I'm allowed too I can still explain a bit

1. Fast GCD and many weavings did not mingle well. The more fast your gcds are the less time you have to weave ogcs.
2. Dark Art + Unmend/Plunge is for QOL in dungeon or when you want 20y over Soul Eater+ Dark Art.

Thank you again for spare your time to read my rubbish. I probably won't bother you again for long time now. In fact I just cancel a contact with my isp that I have always use for FFXIV now. 5.4 is where I decide whether to comeback or cut all tie with XIV. I haven't been treated like being a second rate like this since the earlier day of dragon nest. I thought SE was different but it turned out they're the same.

[Ultimatecalibur]

And finally the MP drain was changed partly due to accessibility, and also partly because it didn't really mean anything, running out of mana only happened if you werent paying attention same way you overcapped on mana in SB if you weren't paying attention, sure you were punished more in HW, but honestly you were at way more risk of overcapping more often than you ever were at running out in HW.

The introduction of cutscene phase transitions with Zurvan (and StB's heavy use of them) was what made the MP drain not viable and led to the ShB "no MP regen" version of Darkside.

So whilst many would like HW drk to come back, it would involve the devs walking back on multiple broad changes that effected a lot of jobs not just DRK, DRK was just caught in the unfortunate ven diagram of all of them.

Exactly.