Gath and his concern for lack of LS competition.

[Eldaena]

If you want to call me offering you advice "debating". Sadly it is not.

My advice was to "not worry" about others and how they play FF.

You seem hellbent on usurping anyone who doesn't ratify any of your previous statements regardless of the context or purpose of their additions.

Anything else you wanted to post which furthers my point?

Nope. I was just teasing anyway. =) I thought it was kind of funny in an ironic kind of way. ^-^ (Seeing as you are bothering to comment to me about how I play the game, my view of how it's played, and then how I respond to players on here as well.)

I'm a more than reasonable person, and I honestly do feel some of Gath's suggestions would cause more problems then solve them. That's the core of the majority of my statements thus far.

[Gospel]

... Dance puppets! Dance!

[AreeyaJaidee]

Nope. I was just teasing anyway. =) I thought it was kind of funny in an ironic kind of way. ^-^ (Seeing as you are bothering to comment to me about how I play the game, my view of how it's played, and then how I respond to players on here as well.)

I'm a more than reasonable person, and I honestly do feel some of Gath's suggestions would cause more problems then solve them. That's the core of the majority of my statements thus far.

OP isnt really suggesting that SE change anything.

He is asking that the future of ffxiv isn't all instance based.

You oppose balance?

In my previous posts I outline why balance is required. I also posted that competition is part of that balance.

You proceeded to argue points that didn't really correlate to the topic. They did however outline the fact that you don't like players who exude an elitist mentality.

Do you see the difference?

This thread isn't about bashing elitist or if elitism should be allowed in ffxiv.

It's about how complete or too much instanced content effects the social demographics of ffxiv told from the perspective of someone who enjoyed a certain aspect of nOn instanced content.

So my point was: everyone stop using outright or subtle mockery of the OP and stick the topic. Otherwise don't post here.

[Eldaena]

OP isnt really suggesting that SE change anything.

He is asking that the future of ffxiv isn't all instance based.

You oppose balance?

In my previous posts I outline why balance is required. I also posted that competition is part of that balance.

You proceeded to argue points that didn't really correlate to the topic. They did however outline the fact that you don't like players who exude an elitist mentality.

Do you see the difference?

This thread isn't about bashing elitist or if elitism should be allowed in ffxiv.

It's about how complete or too much instanced content effects the social demographics of ffxiv told from the perspective of someone who enjoyed a certain aspect of nOn instanced content.

So my point was: everyone stop using outright or subtle mockery of the OP and stick the topic. Otherwise don't post here.

He is suggesting that they change it to something more similar to ffxi in the future. I don't oppose balance, as I had already stated that I am for implementing PVP (in it's own area) and possibly a company vs company or LS vs LS battles for territory they were talking about (still epeen-y, but doesn't necessarily effect core aspects of the game.) People already feel competition with other linkshells over instanced content. (How fast they can beat new content and show off new gear, etc.)

I'm far from promoting instanced events only, but I do think having to fight against other players for something such as a CHANCE to fight a NM is something I oppose. That's when I talk about elitist mentality because people that want LS vs LS camping etc are just masking their actual desire to be on top with the concerns of the rest of the population. The only reason people (that want that kind of competition) would want others to be around to do it, is so they can attempt to dominate them. Is that not true? Are there players on this game that want to lose? Tell me how elitist inspired content does not cause elitist attitudes of "I'm better than you." ?

The two are entwined regardless of how much you try to separate it. Both aspects of this subject effect each other. All I know is, there is plenty of this "me" talk swimming around, but if you want to spend time with your LS friends then do so.

You don't need to camp an NM and do your best to "beat" another LS to claiming, to share a moment and bring your LS together. Loyalty based off elitism doesn't seem as good to me as loyalty based off of just being a good person. I can in all honesty say all players in my LS are skilled and friendly. We do things together, we set goals together, and we don't have to fight with other linkshells at all to feel like we're good. Why do others need that kind of justification? Why do players need to deal more damage or claim a mob before someone else to feel like they are "better."

There won't be instanced only content in the future. I tease at Gath's mannerisms, yet he wasn't exactly polite to me either. Funny, I don't see you running to my defense. =p lol I am inclined to believe you are more likely to agree with him than myself and that is why you continue to oppose me even though I have a logical point as well. That's okay, just say that then. But just like I won't change his perspective on this (or his overabundant self-love) I don't know why you're trying to change my perspective over how I think these aren't such good ideas either.

[WillRiker]

Any game event which is devoid of frustration, and failure, is great at first. But, not long after you find yourself bored. Intergrating competition from others is one of the best ways to incorporate this into the game.

You really dont need to look any further than XI, and ask yourself how long Garison, Besieged, Regional influence, MogMazes, and pankration remained popular. Then look at HNM's, Sky, and other assorted NM's. The ones with competition stayed popular for long periods of time. The ones without inter LS competition died off in popularity relatively quickly. The only one that differed was Dynamis, but even that had competition to get into the zone from time to time.

[DoctorMog]

Mog's 1 gil is worth more than Gath's 1 gil.

[Kaeko]

The OP has the right to post in 3rd person to show just how much of a unique snowflake he is, but he doesn't have the right to make people take him seriously when he does it. If he really cared about the issue he brings up here, he would write his post in a normal manner.

[AreeyaJaidee]

...dance puppets dance (indeed)

- "You don't need to camp an NM and do your best to "beat" another LS to claiming, to share a moment and bring your LS together."

No one stated this to be a requirement. No one asked for "FFXI mechanics" to be copied into FFXIV. Everything has been only "theorized" implementarions of "like" content because it was nostalgic and within the licensed companies realm of feasibility for implementation.

This was the OPs personal sharing of what "he" thought was fun in "another" game SE produced.

- "The only reason people (that want that kind of competition) would want others to be around to do it, is so they can attempt to dominate them. Is that not true? Are there players on this game that want to lose? Tell me how elitist inspired content does not cause elitist attitudes of "I'm better than you."?"

"Elitist inspired content" is your fictitious label.

I could also associate anything requiring effort as "Elitist". That only proves nothing except that we agree elitist exist.

You fight Moogle/Ifrit with the "probability" of winning against calculated and incalculable risks. So if I am to follow your line of reasoning: Do ppl want to fight Moogle even though they might lose?
Are those ppl elitist?

Not inherently: so why would we subjugate them to the removal of such content because some players correlate that content to a demographic or ideology that they despise for whatever personal reason?

- "But just like I won't change his perspective on this (or his overabundant self-love) I don't know why you're trying to change my perspective over how I think these aren't such good ideas either."

You make a lot of assumptions:
- Im not defending Gath. I'm defending the topic to keep its clarity. He is the OP and instead of ppl posting about the topic, most are posting about other things. Namely harassing him which can be (and has been) reported.

- Dont give yourself so much credit. I have no personal care about your beliefs, ideologies, etc. Everything I stated was a "take it if you want" bit of advice. Idc how you recieved it. I care even less about "how you play ffxiv" or any other game for that matter. You chose to take anything I wrote personally and reply with snide sarcasm of your own unneeded volition

Either way you argue it you still are basing this off of your resentment towards elitism. That is simply not the topic.

The topic is about content. PVP-PVE fusion content.

I agree on putting PVP-PVE fusion content in FFXIV.

No harm, no foul. Move on.

You don't have to be "elitist" to enjoy competive content. Nor do you have to be elitist to be in a Linkshell.

If people want a few open world HNMs then cool.
Let's stop filling the forums with "doomsday! omg it's going to ruin ffxiv! don't do it. I know because I am a professional game developer SE!"

It won't "break" the game. It will add to it.

It won't "make elitism" worse, elitist flock to MMOs. Nothing anyone can do about that.

So let's stop with the fake altruism.

[Eldaena]

...dance puppets dance (indeed)

- "You don't need to camp an NM and do your best to "beat" another LS to claiming, to share a moment and bring your LS together."

No one stated this to be a requirement. No one asked for "FFXI mechanics" to be copied into FFXIV. Everything has been only "theorized" implementarions of "like" content because it was nostalgic and within the licensed companies realm of feasibility for implementation.

This was the OPs personal sharing of what "he" thought was fun in "another" game SE produced.

- "The only reason people (that want that kind of competition) would want others to be around to do it, is so they can attempt to dominate them. Is that not true? Are there players on this game that want to lose? Tell me how elitist inspired content does not cause elitist attitudes of "I'm better than you."?"

"Elitist inspired content" is your fictitious label.

I could also associate anything requiring effort as "Elitist". That only proves nothing except that we agree elitist exist.

You fight Moogle/Ifrit with the "probability" of winning against calculated and incalculable risks. So if I am to follow your line of reasoning: Do ppl want to fight Moogle even though they might lose?
Are those ppl elitist?

Not inherently: so why would we subjugate them to the removal of such content because some players correlate that content to a demographic or ideology that they despise for whatever personal reason?

- "But just like I won't change his perspective on this (or his overabundant self-love) I don't know why you're trying to change my perspective over how I think these aren't such good ideas either."

You make a lot of assumptions:
- Im not defending Gath. I'm defending the topic to keep its clarity. He is the OP and instead of ppl posting about the topic, most are posting about other things. Namely harassing him which can be (and has been) reported.

- Dont give yourself so much credit. I have no personal care about your beliefs, ideologies, etc. Everything I stated was a "take it if you want" bit of advice. Idc how you recieved it. I care even less about "how you play ffxiv" or any other game for that matter. You chose to take anything I wrote personally and reply with snide sarcasm of your own unneeded volition

Either way you argue it you still are basing this off of your resentment towards elitism. That is simply not the topic.

The topic is about content. PVP-PVE fusion content.

I agree on putting PVP-PVE fusion content in FFXIV.

No harm, no foul. Move on.

You don't have to be "elitist" to enjoy competive content. Nor do you have to be elitist to be in a Linkshell.

If people want a few open world HNMs then cool.
Let's stop filling the forums with "doomsday! omg it's going to ruin ffxiv! don't do it. I know because I am a professional game developer SE!"

It won't "break" the game. It will add to it.

It won't "make elitism" worse, elitist flock to MMOs. Nothing anyone can do about that.

So let's stop with the fake altruism.

The difference is you are only fighting against a computer and not other groups of people when you do content like Ifrit and Moogle. That is a large difference. I disagree with PVPxPVE content. Elitist is simply believing you are better than someone else, particularly, in a video game. That kind of content will only support such behaviors. I care about people. Honestly what do I have to personally gain from them not introducing this kind of content? Nothing. So that's where my priorities are. Where are yours?

[Gath]

Gath won the internet with this topic.

Gath states that people see third person and they cannot take me seriously.

Gath thinks they cannot take the game seriously because they want something to moan about because 2.0 is a ways off and all of their problems should/would/could be fixed by then.

Gath continues to type like this and no matter the circumstance will Gath change how Gath is.

People get mad at Gath and call this thread bad, if you think Gath's thread is bad then go to one of the other threads. They will be happy to accommodate your lack of sense.

Gath loves FFXIV and Gath loves the people he plays with, even the whole server.

If you have nothing constructive to say that could help remedy the issue or even make the topic better then get out and stop acting like the ten year old you claim Gath to be. Gath does not appreciate hypocrites.

The difference is you are only fighting against a computer and not other groups of people when you do content like Ifrit and Moogle. That is a large difference. I disagree with PVPxPVE content. Elitist is simply believing you are better than someone else, particularly, in a video game. That kind of content will only support such behaviors. I care about people. Honestly what do I have to personally gain from them not introducing this kind of content? Nothing. So that's where my priorities are. Where are yours?

Didn't you say earlier in the thread that you weren't selfish? Sounds like it to Gath...

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.