I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[Vahlnir]

Actually, no. A tank refusing to pull mobs off someone is them refusing to do their job and endangering the run. Those mobs will eventually target someone else if you let them purposely ignore them, and if it happens to be the healer (or the healer is who you let die). You've now made things worse out of pettiness. Someone pulling ahead of you isn't doing it to show you up but to speed things along. Now you may dislike that, and can certainly voiced such afterwards. But there's no way around you're just being petty.

I'm above letting people die, but I'm not above giving them a scare. I totally plan to save someone who pulled for me...but only after they've taken some damage themselves. Usually that puts a stop to it without ever having to say a word and without slowing things down. Straight up letting people die though because of this is indeed petty.

[Daibunnie]

I'm above letting people die, but I'm not above giving them a scare. I totally plan to save someone who pulled for me...but only after they've taken some damage themselves. Usually that puts a stop to it without ever having to say a word and without slowing things down.

You're still willing to let the healer waste their resources out of pettiness.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Wonder what would happen if the instance timer for dungeons were 30 minutes instead of 90.

Dungeons would be even shorter. Likely just a corridor with a single boss and people would be complaining about tanks doing single pack pulls instead of the full corridor pulls.

[Vahlnir]

You're still willing to let the healer waste their resources out of pettiness.

Then they shouldn't have pulled when the speed is just fine. Some people are just super impatient and no speed is ever fast enough. This isn't something I encounter frequently though because I'm not a slow tank by any means. However, I am very quick to read a room and know when to pick things up or slow them down as needed. If I feel the group can handle just a bit more? Bam, more speed, though in max level dungeons my speed is maxed. In leveling content is where things can be a bit...questionable at times. Just because an impatient dps is pulling extra packs doesn't mean the healer can handle it, or even that the dps can handle that many. I've learned how to read a room. Plenty of people need to learn how to do the same. If someone else is making things more difficult than they have to be...well, they can hang on to what they pulled for a few seconds. They won't die. And the healer won't run out of MP. I only use this method when it comes to dps. I will always come to my healer's aid, even if they annoy me to no end.

[xxvaynxx]

So, I'm only talking about pulling single packs and you're adding in other things like not knowing how to use defensive cooldowns. Quite a strawman there.

Huh?
The bit about using defensive cooldowns wasn't even directed towards you and was just more a general sense on why people question why people are so bad or why its accepted.
Just pointed out the common things you see from bad players.


Though I do love how you always ignore my whole post just to point out one thing.
Just so you have something to say.


Now this WAS directed towards you.
You're ok with people pulling only single packs of mobs, which is why I said you're ok with people playing like garbage if you're so hell bent on thinking that's ok, when mobs hit like a wet noodle even when you're decently geared for said dgn.
Gonna say its fair to assume you tank like this, as I don't think "good" tanks would defend this sort of lazy play.
If you're playing a tank in a endgame dungeon or a dungeon WAY Past the ARR stages.
But I guess you want HoN to teach people how to pull a large mobs?

[Goji1639]

People have so much of their identity invested into this game that they're essentially incapable of admitting it's possible to just be bad at it.

Instead, we parade out justifications for how inefficient, low quality game-play is just an alternative playstyle and that it somehow doesn't impact their value as a player in a multiplayer game.

The wonderful thing about being bad or new is that it's totally temporary! Due to this games incredibly low skill floor, you can make massive improvements to your gameplay with very minimal effort. This game even offers an incredible abundance of people that are willing to help you improve.

Improvements are easy to make. Resources and people are available to help you make them. If, in the face of that, you still refuse to try to do better in the context of a cooperative activity..... What exactly does that say about someone?

Value as a player isn't the issue. The faster you can clear the more valuable you are; most people wouldn't deny that.

If someone decides they'd rather take a slower approach then they probably don't care that much about your value assessment. You're just not very important.

That's kind of my issue with this. I'll generally wall to wall in endgame dungeons, but when someone in a video game tells me I'm not ALLOWED to do anything else... that doesn't set well. Acting like your preference is an in-game rule that you have the authority to enforce on everybody is just bratty nonsense that turns people against you.

Most groups don't care if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall. Even when single pulling an instance rarely takes more than 20-25 minutes. The people losing their minds over this are a minority of wannabe elitists.

[Mixt]

Honestly, at this point i would like to have speed bump traps, not just the current walls that prevent you from pulling at all, but outright "You dun goofed, have a nice death!" party wiping consequences for doing so.

Examples:

1: There is a lore note warning you that two different types of mobs have some sort of extreme synergy that massively empowers them when they are together, and that as such you should never let them near each other.

So you have a regular sized pack of 3 mobs, doing like 9k auto-attacks, not so bad.

So you pull the next pack as well, containing a different type of mob...and suddenly the two mob types tether together and get a 10x damage multiplier, so now you suddenly have 6 mobs hitting you for 90k each, for a total of 540k damage every GCD. While your max HP is like 170k at most. RIP.

2: There is a pack of mobs, followed by a rickety looking bridge, and then another pack of mobs after the bridge. However, if you pull the first pack across the bridge you find that the bridge cannot take the extra weight from the mobs, causing it to collapse and sending the party to their doom, after all, you are in combat, so the fall damage will kill you. Wipe.

3: There is a lone elite mob that, if you pull it past a certain point in the corridor, will stop to smash a load-bearing column, causing the whole dungeon to collapse on the party's heads, wipe.

Go on, rush ahead without stopping to kill things, i dare you.


Then again, that may just be my inner troll talking, itching to take the community standard and rig it to blow up in people's faces because it's funny.

[DPZ2]

Run with trusts. Don't waste other people's time when there is an alternative.

So, when was the last time you joined a daily Trust run ? smh

[Kiarin]

The party's "governing system" must be a democracy, so if majority wishes to go slow/fast, minority should leave or oblige.

That being said, I don't think that going slower is bad per se. Some people like to take it chilly, or maybe are tired after work, or whatever else. They have right for it too, and both approaches to dungeoneering are equally fine.

[Nestama]

The main reason why people expect wall to wall pulls is because trash mobs are boring (they often don't have mechanics). If the DPS and Healer say it's fine to do a big pull (usually when they notice the tank isn't doing one), then the tank should do what the majority want. If they don't, then they'll have to deal with either the DPS or Healer pulling mobs for them (or even a Rescue), or risk a kick. If the tank still refuses and even opts to let the person pulling KO ("you pull, you tank"), then odds of getting kicked are even higher as it's now obvious that the tank plans on dictating the run. No I in Team and all that jazz.

The only time I can see doing small pulls being the better option is if the DPS you have in your group don't know what AoE's are for some reason and/or the Healer is spamming Cure/Benefic/Physick. Also undergeared reasons.

Ideas to make trash mobs require you to stop for X reason (rickety bridge/falling column, etc) will potentially suffer the same issues Pharos Sirius had. That dungeon, before its nerfs, would often have people immediately leave it and the main reason was because it took too long (for one reason or another). Haukke Manor Hard and Copperbell Mines Hard were way shorter than Pharos Sirius, so people just opted to never use Roulette and instead spam run those dungeons... though that's if they did the mechanics or knew their rotation (worm in Copperbell's final boss would cause wipes if people didn't feed it and Halicarnassus in Haukke would enrage at 6 minutes).