Is pvp dead? Can it come back?

[BloodRubyXII]

Nooooo thanks.
Side content that I need to perpetually keep up on in order to continue doing it or be at an unfun artificial disadvantage?
I'd legit quit PVP. I only play it because I'm free to enjoy it whenever I feel like it.
No other content in FF14 has upkeep and I'd like that to stay out of this game.

I agree with pretty much ItMe and Esmoire's posts.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. They had intentions of making gear and materia matter at one point clearly, what was the only PvP stat called? Morale? Lol. They just never went through with it and I'm glad they didn't. The way it is now where anyone can get involved and improve at varying levels is important.

Having played WoW for over 20 seasons of ranked, I never had an issue with PvP gear there, I had an issue with Blizzard's execution of obtaining it because I was fine with getting better gear as I PvPed for ranked, but not back when there were 0 catchup mechanics and if you joined mid season in BG gear you got absolutely trashed and there was nothing you could do about it because the best gear was locked behind a time gate and a rating gate. Which, if you started early season, you'd beat the time gate, but anyone who queued later on into like S8 for example at 2-2.1K MMR into teams with T2 PvP Weapons/SMourne/HC DBW repeatedly knows how it was extremely difficult to win those games because sometimes being better wouldn't be enough, and 2200 teams back then were generally quite good unlike now. A lot of what attracted people like me and some of my friends to this game from WoW's ranked PvP scene (ye, we're calling this game a retirement home) is solo queue ranked pvp + no time commitment requirement whatsoever.

[Esmoire]

They just need to revert back to 24 men

If you mean 8v8v8, hard pass, at least the way they did it before. I really hated the experience of having these huge maps that clumsily scaled objectives, if scaled at all. Shatter was a disaster especially.

When they had 8v8v8, I didn't want to try queueing too early or too late so I could avoid getting put into that experience, and I was certainly not alone (or people leaving when they zone in). Plus the nature of psychology is that it's easier in 8v8v8 for people to see which team is weaker or stronger, resulting in more people just ceasing to try more readily than 24v24v24. As such, while I can see why some people feel getting put into an 8v8v8 is better than nothing, I think overall it was more detrimental than it is helpful.

The general idea of shifting PvP players into an activity that requires fewer players is good, though. Maybe if they could make like micro versions of the maps with objective changes that work better so we aren't wailing away at chunks of ice forever. Figure if it's just using existing assets they could throw together something. Won't fix all of the problems but it would have been better than what they had.

[Gula]

Nooooo thanks.
Side content that I need to perpetually keep up on in order to continue doing it or be at an unfun artificial disadvantage?
I'd legit quit PVP. I only play it because I'm free to enjoy it whenever I feel like it.
No other content in FF14 has upkeep and I'd like that to stay out of this game.

I'm explaining what it would take to bring it back. You would quit, but I guarantee hundreds of people would replace you. People like having goals. It's how humans work, and gaming companies know how to wrestle control of people's livelihoods for a profit. See twitch and how easy it will be to find someone with 1k+ views playing an esports title.

Within games that focus on PVP, it's often encouraged to be able to curb stomp someone, have that person waste hours of their youth slaving away to level up arbitrary numbers, and curbstomp the newbies. By the time the veterans quit, it's too late. Days upon weeks of their life they'll never get back.

But hey, I wouldn't change XIV's PVP back to how it used to be. I like having a fair chance.

[Gula]

If you mean 8v8v8, hard pass, at least the way they did it before. I really hated the experience of having these huge maps that clumsily scaled objectives, if scaled at all. Shatter was a disaster especially.

I think it could work with a smaller map. Scale it down, 8v8+open outpost. This way there's additional points to be had and an incentive to, you know, actually PVP instead of waiting in line like you're getting your ID picture taken.

[Newmanxeno]

I would do solo q for 24 man if it meant I could queue super late or early.
Leveling for pvp again would suck. Having to get gear to have the best stats would also suck. I am pretty sure FFXIV is not ever going to be seen as a PvP game. There already are hundreds of people playing. We are just spread out. Primal has at least two 72 man matches a night for a few hours. And I'm sure its the same on the other DCs.

[Divinemights]

If you mean 8v8v8, hard pass, at least the way they did it before. I really hated the experience of having these huge maps that clumsily scaled objectives, if scaled at all. Shatter was a disaster especially.

It may be the case for you if you are Zerg type of player that must have a healer to follow you around. Not for me, that type of a PvP just plain straight mind numbing clown feasr. (again, this is my perspective of view). I am pretty sure everyone here had countless games at Onsal where a bunch of people just following group mindlessly.

You may enjoy those But not me, I prefer 24 men that requires you to have tactical thinking and human resource management skill. 72 men restriction is not going to work for NA/EU PvP community because we don’t have that size.

[Kezzic]

If you don’t want any kind of power scaling in PVP, then how do you incentivize players outside of limited time, achievement based events?

And don’t talk as if Frontlines queues popping is indicative of a healthy PVP scene. A 72 player PVP mode is an RNG moshpit with no strategy. And the other 2 PVP modes are inaccessible outside peak times. Please.

[Esmoire]

It may be the case for you if you are Zerg type of player that must have a healer to follow you around. Not for me, that type of a PvP just plain straight mind numbing clown feasr. (again, this is my perspective of view). I am pretty sure everyone here had countless games at Onsal where a bunch of people just following group mindlessly.

You may enjoy those But not me, I prefer 24 men that requires you to have tactical thinking and human resource management skill. 72 men restriction is not going to work for NA/EU PvP community because we don’t have that size.

Yeah but what is the identity of Frontline? I don't think it's fair to manufacture and produce that kind of experience from something that says you are queueing for Frontline, you are hoping to get into Frontline, then the gameplay experience is radically different when you zone in. That's not Frontline anymore. Like, it feels like the fundamental shift in 8v8v8 is way out of bounds with the way any kind of duty you queue for in FFXIV can change. Sounds like a reason to craft a small scale experience more conducive to organized strategic PvP that isn't Feast, to stand on its own. I totally respect that some people don't dig the chaotic nature of FL but I think the mode should embrace its volatile experience and when people queue for it, that's what they should get.

[Commander_Justitia]

then how do you incentivize players outside of limited time, achievement based events?

The most simplest way would be using what already exists. PvP Rank. Make PvP Rank meaningful again, set it to Rank100. Current Rank1-50 should take same time as 1-100, to compensate for people who are already Rank50 in all GC. In the past you could unlock traits to PvP Skills with Rank Points, the more points the more options. There could be unique skills for Frontline and Feast seperately. I wouldn't be against an armor set that has a rank requirement either. It would be a long term incentive for people to actually play longer - like a themed GC armor.
You could display ranks within frontlines and make challenges around killing people with a certain rank. You could adjust matchmaking algorithm to consider Rank, then we wouldn't need forced freelancer.
This is just all the things they already had once in the game or are still in the game, if you really wanted you could do even more. Feast could have way more different incentives aswell, but many people mentioned them in the past already.

[BloodRubyXII]

The most simplest way would be using what already exists. PvP Rank. Make PvP Rank meaningful again, set it to Rank100. Current Rank1-50 should take same time as 1-100, to compensate for people who are already Rank50 in all GC. In the past you could unlock traits to PvP Skills with Rank Points, the more points the more options. There could be unique skills for Frontline and Feast seperately. I wouldn't be against an armor set that has a rank requirement either. It would be a long term incentive for people to actually play longer - like a themed GC armor.
You could display ranks within frontlines and make challenges around killing people with a certain rank. You could adjust matchmaking algorithm to consider Rank, then we wouldn't need forced freelancer.
This is just all the things they already had once in the game or are still in the game, if you really wanted you could do even more. Feast could have way more different incentives aswell, but many people mentioned them in the past already.

The fact PvP Rank does virtually nothing now except titles makes me really sad. Half the reason I was so focused on ranking it up back in HW was because I learned about PvP additionals and knew I needed I think it was 46 or 48 to get the maximum amount of stuff.