Advertising sexual content in party finder

[NanaWiloh]

Again, what is it with black-and-white blanket statements?

By the way, when you put all responsibility on the potential victim, you then put the blame on them if they get hurt because you're acting like adults have no self control and shouldn't be held responsible for their own actions. If you can't be certain that the person you're ERPing with isn't underage, and you do it anyway, what does that say about you? Are you okay with ERPing with minors as long as they don't tell you that they are one?

When someone tells me their age in game its part of my 99% BS view. For anyone who ERP's its a risk they choose to accept goes for both minors and adults both are guilty. I very black and white on this matter, most minors also know about and have experience in things their parents would prefer they not have. Keeping minors safe is a great idea but what you are trying to keep them safe from? A sick mindo weirdo or someone talking about a dirty magazine they read. Blacklisting sure protects them from adult talk, but being responsible and educated about online safety will help protect them from the sick minded. Most adults serious about hurting minors will not foolishly broadcast it for everyone too see. Posting ERP crap in the PF should not be allowed, but its far from the biggest problem effecting minors in this game.

[Doozer]

When someone tells me their age in game its part of my 99% BS view. For anyone who ERP's its a risk they choose to accept. I very black and white on this matter, most minors also know about and have experience in things their parents would prefer they not have. Keeping minors safe is a great idea but what you are trying to keep them safe from? A sick mindo weirdo or someone talking about a dirty magazine they read. Blacklisting sure protects them from adult talk, but being responsible and educated about online safety will help protect them from the sick minded. Most adults serious about hurting minors will not foolishly broadcast it for everyone too see.

I'm sorry you're so misinformed about sexual predators online. Clearly it's not just minors that require education on this. Unless you yourself are a minor, of course.

[NanaWiloh]

I'm sorry you're so misinformed about sexual predators online. Clearly it's not just minors that require education on this. Unless you yourself are a minor, of course.

I am not misinformed its thinking that all online predators do is talk sex with minors. If you think that you are sadly mistaken I have seen more then my fair share of stories of predators luring teens away without every mentioning sex. No I am not a minor and I am parent of a teenager who is online routinely and safe about it.

[Katalyn]

OK, I'm sure someone will get this twisted so I'll start with this. Sexual relations between an adult and a minor are NOT OK ever and are INEXCUSABLE.

And we also need to educate adults on how to behave around minors, clearly. It's not just the victim's job to avoid being harmed.

I'm on Balmung and have seen plenty of these PF advertisements, and I would say that the content publicly posted in PF is tamer than some of the sexual content created by the developer, Satasha says hello. You seem to be taking the position that the minor is harmed/becomes a victim the moment they view these type of PF advertisements. I find that hard to believe as they've already seen more risque content by playing the game proper if they've gotten to the starter dungeons. I don't think anyone has been harmed or a victim until they actually partake in what's being advertised.

So where is the parents' responsibility in this? Shouldn't they know what their child is doing online? Parents need to be actively involved in what their children are doing online. They should not be using FFXIV as a babysitter, and they should not be pushing their parental responsibilities off on Square-Enix which is what this thread seems to advocate. They need to actually take the time to research and understand the game they are letting their kids play. Yes its rated Teen, but its an online environment where they will interact with people of all ages. Would you let your child blindly interact with adults you didn't know unsupervised? I know I wouldn't.

It is the responsibility of anyone engaging in ERP to make sure all parties involved are consenting adults, anything else is unacceptable, but just as important if not more important parents need to take responsibility for parenting their kids instead of trying to push that responsibility off on someone else.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

I suppose I'm unfairly biased due to my personal loathing of the FFXIV RP community but I'll toss in my two cents regardless.

Personally, I'm not at all opposed to scrubbing the PF free of anything that contains content that heavily implies activities deemed highly inappropriate in a T-rated setting. And this includes shout chat as well; as I've seen 18+ advertisements being screamed at the absolute top of someone's lungs in a pretty orange that fills my chat box.

I don't fancy it's high visibility and easy accessibility. I'd much rather it'd be made comparatively more subtle and harder to find.

Carefully regulated discords and word-of-mouth is a decent workaround from my perspective.

[Doozer]

You can cut out a single sentence of all the things I've said in this thread, so I'll do the same.

It is the responsibility of anyone engaging in ERP to make sure all parties involved are consenting adults, anything else is unacceptable, but just as important if not more important parents need to take responsibility for parenting their kids instead of trying to push that responsibility off on someone else.

If you think expecting adults to be responsible with who they engage in sexual acts with is "pushing the responsibility on them", then Mega Yikes.

And it's still the responsibility of everyone to protect minors. Period. That doesn't mean we have to go around patrolling or hounding people doing even the smallest thing, but if we see things that aren't okay we have do something, instead of just thinking "eh, it's the parent's problem" and then ignoring it.

I don't know why this has to be Party A has to take responsibility or Party B has to take responsibility. SE has to take responsibility, the potential perpetrators have to take responsibility, the potential victims have to take responsibility (for their own safety), the parents of minors have to take responsibility, and bystanders have to take responsibility. It's lack of action or speaking out about things that allows it to happen. There's something that literally all of us can do to prevent minors from being exposed to sex-related contact with living adults (so stop bringing up dungeon stories, they can't assault or harass anyone). This shouldn't even be a divisive topic, yet here we are.

[Kolsykol]

"18+", "ERP" and "brothel" aren't obscene/indecent expressions. The majority of ERP listings don't have any obscene or indecent expressions to report about, and knowledge that any players responding to that PF will possibly engage in some type of sensual/sexual activity is nowhere near qualifying the PF as an obscene/indecent expression.

This whole thread is nothing but people trying their hardest to cancel PFs they aren't interested in because they lack the common sense and/or maturity to just ignore it.

This whole game is '' obscene and indecent '' depending on who you ask lol.
There's NPC cat girl dancers in bikinis and dudes in leopard speedos running around, considering how overly sensitive a surprising amount of people are to the human body still this game has a lot of that for people to get upset about.
The whole '' obscene and indecent '' argument is usually just people trying to make their personal opinion sound more legitimate and like it carries more weight imo, if the devs or whatever decide that they want to draw the line somewhere then they will and they'll ban people for it.
But a random individuals views on what is and isn't obscene is kinda irrelevant I think.
Not to mention how cultural it is too, just holding hands or kissing in public can be seen as indecent or even different sexualities...
It's just kind of a pointless argument imo, the devs just put that in the ToS as a way of saying '' we'll take action whenever we want ''. There's a reason why it's left vague.

Report people if ya want for it, but if the GM's decide that it's alright then it's alright.
I also think that there's ERP and then there's ERP, they're not all equal.
I don't think that ERP in and of itself is obscene or indecent unless you're just someone who thinks that sex and sexuality in and of itself is which is pretty ridiculous and not worth taking seriously imo.
It's also a bit silly and strange priorities imo, like people are okay with violence and murder but oh no sex and sexuality that's where the line is drawn?
I mean it's not surprising, but it still makes me facepalm.

When I think of things that are obscene and indecent it goes way beyond just fairly casual ERP or nudity etc, I think of things that are or are borderline illegal and in some deep fetish territory.
I mean apparently some people think that some bosses in this game are obscene and indecent too, but I think that's really pushing it and makes me feel like I am in church or something lol.
I think that people attribute these terms to what they're saying sometimes just to try and legitimize their opinions and lend them more perceived weight.
It's sorta like how media outlets sometimes label something as '' controversial '' when no one except them thinks that it's controversial, it's just a way of controlling or creating a narrative.
But just saying that it is doesn't actually make it so.

You can cut out a single sentence of all the things I've said in this thread, so I'll do the same.



If you think expecting adults to be responsible with who they engage in sexual acts with is "pushing the responsibility on them", then Mega Yikes.

Uh.... She said that it IS the responsibility of people to make sure that people are consenting adults.
Did you not read what she said?

[Dollifer]

Alright I am probably going to regret opening up about this on this forum but I think someone with actual experience being groomed over the internet as a teen needs to speak up.

So yeah, basically I was groomed through ERP on gaiaonline about twelve years back when I very first started Rping in general. I did not tell them my age and they did not ask for it at first, they came to me and I did not seek out anything that was labeled 18+. Instead what happened is that I expressed my interest on my own post about getting involved in legit RP, NOT ERP. He came to me in a PM and told me he really wanted to mentor me on how to RP (BIG red flag btw). I was so happy that someone who seemed into SERIOUS RP wanted to help me out and get me started. Of course it didn't stay that way and there is no way in hell I am going to share any more details about this but it did end with police being involved.

Anyway, the whole point of me sharing that is that these sickos are going to be EVERYWHERE. While it might seem like ERP is the prime place to catch and groom minors it isn't the only way. Sure I might suggest that Square add maybe some more age checks so that we can verify age via profile and make posts more on the risky side of things only visible to those who have verified through game that they are indeed 18+, BUT, and this is a big but. We can't exactly fault other adults for wanting to use this game in the way they want with other consenting adults. What needs to happen instead of this silly bickering where both sides have good points but neither refuses to accept that is start taking more accountability in game. I'm sorry but if you are going to just bitch about it in threads then you aren't doing anything to help these kids. There were forums like this on Gaia too and not a single one of those people actually did anything. You want to stop minors from being groomed, educate them because a responsible adult will not always be around. If you see a post seeking ERP but it isn't clear they are doing very strict checks with the people who are buying from them (Not labeling them 18+, finding out they don't do second checks before they start) report them.

Like god dammit guys. This thread isn't helping shit. Adults can do stuff with adults, yes it is scary to think that some sicko could lure a kid into ERP with them and groom them but that isn't their only trick. Pay attention. It is in the dungeons with the tank that takes a special interest in a new player, it is in the quicksand with the person who rushes to someone who says they are new to RP because they assume that means they are young. We shouldn't punish adults who are actually just seeking other adults but we should be paying attention more.

Edit: Oh and if this was originally posted just as bait, shame on you. Don't use this sort of topic to troll and get people heated up. It needs to be taken seriously, not as a tool to pit people against each other.

[NanaWiloh]

This whole game is '' obscene and indecent '' depending on who you ask lol.
There's NPC cat girl dancers in bikinis and dudes in leopard speedos running around, considering how overly sensitive a surprising amount of people are to the human body still this game has a lot of that for people to get upset about.
The whole '' obscene and indecent '' argument is usually just people trying to make their personal opinion sound more legitimate and like it carries more weight imo, if the devs or whatever decide that they want to draw the line somewhere then they will and they'll ban people for it.
But a random individuals views on what is and isn't obscene is kinda irrelevant I think.
Not to mention how cultural it is too, just holding hands or kissing in public can be seen as indecent or even different sexualities...
It's just kind of a pointless argument imo, the devs just put that in the ToS as a way of saying '' we'll take action whenever we want ''. There's a reason why it's left vague.

Report people if ya want for it, but if the GM's decide that it's alright then it's alright.
I also think that there's ERP and then there's ERP, they're not all equal.
I don't think that ERP in and of itself is obscene or indecent unless you're just someone who thinks that sex and sexuality in and of itself is which is pretty ridiculous and not worth taking seriously imo.
It's also a bit silly and strange priorities imo, like people are okay with violence and murder but oh no sex and sexuality that's where the line is drawn?
I mean it's not surprising, but it still makes me facepalm.

When I think of things that are obscene and indecent it goes way beyond just fairly casual ERP or nudity etc, I think of things that are or are borderline illegal and in some deep fetish territory.
I mean apparently some people think that some bosses in this game are obscene and indecent too, but I think that's really pushing it and makes me feel like I am in church or something lol.
I think that people attribute these terms to what they're saying sometimes just to try and legitimize their opinions and lend them more perceived weight.
It's sorta like how media outlets sometimes label something as '' controversial '' when no one except them thinks that it's controversial, it's just a way of controlling or creating a narrative.
But just saying that it is doesn't actually make it so.



Uh.... She said that it IS the responsibility of people to make sure that people are consenting adults.
Did you not read what she said?

Verfying age is one of the reasons ERP is not condoned. You can't be 100% sure someone is the age they say that they are. You if you choose to ERP you choose to trust someone who like you, is under no obligation to be honest. Voices and looks cant be trusted when you have minor who look and sound like adults. When I was in High school the local enforcement did a drug investigation by placing a officer at the school as a student. She was a female officer late 20's but looked and sounded like teenager, she passed as a teen so well her fellow students and teachers had no idea she was and adult. This being the internet its far easier to make someone believe you are older then you claim to be.

[Kolsykol]

Verfying age is one of the reasons ERP is not condoned. You can't be 100% sure someone is the age they say that they are. You if you choose to ERP you choose to trust someone who like you, is under no obligation to be honest. Voices and looks cant be trusted when you have minor who look and sound like adults. When I was in High school the local enforcement did a drug investigation by placing a officer at the school as a student. She was a female officer late 20's but looked and sounded like teenager, she passed as a teen so well her fellow students and teachers had no idea she was and adult. This being the internet its far easier to make someone believe you are older then you claim to be.

People mistook me for being in my mid 20's when I was like 15 lol, I have experience with that too including being creeped on by an adult because of it when I was a kid on MSN and other weird stuff.
And I also used this when I was a kid to buy alcohol and cigarettes, you can trick people irl with that too. I probably could've in regards to sex too had I wanted to, so this issue you're talking about extends to outside of video games too.
I get what you're saying but I guess that's the risk you take.
And it's also a risk that you do take irl, I mean how many people actually confirm the age irl? Do you ask people to take out their ID and show it to you? How do you know that isn't fake?
I have a really hard time believing that minors lying about their age for the sake of ERP:ing is something that actually happens to any significant extent.

To be clear.
What we're talking about now is adults seeking other adults to ERP with, and a minor lying about their age.
I wouldn't blame the adult at that point considering that it's a video game and not real.
Adults deliberately seeking out minors for this is totally different and I don't think that anyone would defend that, but if it's adults seeking other adults then quite frankly the minor is at fault at that point and I think they should be banned for it and not the adult.
The adult didn't even do anything wrong at that point so long as it was genuine, I mean if you're in voice chat and the voice is clearly of a minor and you continue doing it then that obviously changes things too.