Results 1 to 10 of 761

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Zsolen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Tailfeather
    Posts
    818
    Character
    Zanelle Solainteau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    One of the alternatives to giving advice is simply kicking the person with a different playstyle. When people come across poor perfornance, these are the two real avenues. Letting people hinder a party and sometimes alliances (Ozma) is not a solution.

    If someone does not want to improve, then maybe they are playing the wrong game.
    (8)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kanjien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    17
    Character
    Kanjien Stormbow
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zsolen View Post
    One of the alternatives to giving advice is simply kicking the person with a different playstyle. When people come across poor perfornance, these are the two real avenues. Letting people hinder a party and sometimes alliances (Ozma) is not a solution.

    If someone does not want to improve, then maybe they are playing the wrong game.
    Statements like this (probably unintentionally) are one of the reasons this world is so divisive right now. It is akin to "if you don't want to stand for the National Anthem, maybe you should move to another country!" It takes any form of discussion and mutual respect and throws it right out the window. The issue isn't who is more "toxic", there is toxicity on both sides. The issue is how do we come together as a diverse player base to reach the goal we all share which is to enjoy our time playing a game we love as much as possible.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    Zsolen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Tailfeather
    Posts
    818
    Character
    Zanelle Solainteau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanjien View Post
    Statements like this (probably unintentionally) are one of the reasons this world is so divisive right now. It is akin to "if you don't want to stand for the National Anthem, maybe you should move to another country!" It takes any form of discussion and mutual respect and throws it right out the window. The issue isn't who is more "toxic", there is toxicity on both sides. The issue is how do we come together as a diverse player base to reach the goal we all share which is to enjoy our time playing a game we love as much as possible.
    This is not a political forum. Saying an mmo may not be suitable for someone that will not listen to others is not the same as telling someone to leave their country of citizenship. I will never understand people's need to inject politics into everything, and this is coming from someone well-versed in the social sciences.

    It is not toxic to kick someone for making things harder on the party purposefully. Offering advice is inclusive, but people that are stubborn should be removed.
    (12)

  4. #4
    Player
    Kanjien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    17
    Character
    Kanjien Stormbow
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zsolen View Post
    This is not a political forum. Saying an mmo may not be suitable for someone that will not listen to others is not the same as telling someone to leave their country of citizenship. I will never understand people's need to inject politics into everything, and this is coming from someone well-versed in the social sciences.

    It is not toxic to kick someone for making things harder on the party purposefully. Offering advice is inclusive, but people that are stubborn should be removed.
    So kick them, I didn't argue what was toxic or not. But telling them they shouldn't be playing a game is toxic. And I wasn't really being political because I did not choose a side in the debate, I was using a real world example of the fastest way to derail a communication.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Zsolen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Tailfeather
    Posts
    818
    Character
    Zanelle Solainteau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanjien View Post
    So kick them, I didn't argue what was toxic or not. But telling them they shouldn't be playing a game is toxic. And I wasn't really being political because I did not choose a side in the debate, I was using a real world example of the fastest way to derail a communication.
    Telling who? I never said that to anyone. I just said in general people that don't want to cooperate might want try to another game.

    GIVEN:
    -MMOs are based upon cooperation.
    -Certain people do not want to cooperate.

    Solution:
    -Maybe they should try a game that does not have cooperation as a core element.

    That is simple problem solving. It is not up to me to tell someone if they can sub or not; however, it is clear that those that do not wish to cooperate should not play mmos. It's a suggestion.
    (11)

  6. #6
    Player
    Kanjien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    17
    Character
    Kanjien Stormbow
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zsolen View Post
    Telling who? I never said that to anyone. I just said in general people that don't want to cooperate might want try to another game.

    GIVEN:
    -MMOs are based upon cooperation.
    -Certain people do not want to cooperate.

    Solution:
    -Maybe they should try a game that does not have cooperation as a core element.

    That is simple problem solving. It is not up to me to tell someone if they can sub or not; however, it is clear that those that do not wish to cooperate should not play mmos. It's a suggestion.
    You just said it on this forum...if you don't listen to me and follow my advice then you shouldn't play this game. Who are you to tell anyone what game they should play? A better suggestion would be "if you don't take my advice you will not improve and you will not be able to sample the higher and more rewarding content in the game". Not confrontational and leaves the door open to discussion. If then the person is rude and defensive they deserve to be kicked. No mutual learning can be had by putting someone on the defensive right out of the box.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Zsolen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Tailfeather
    Posts
    818
    Character
    Zanelle Solainteau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanjien View Post
    You just said it on this forum...if you don't listen to me and follow my advice then you shouldn't play this game. Who are you to tell anyone what game they should play? A better suggestion would be "if you don't take my advice you will not improve and you will not be able to sample the higher and more rewarding content in the game". Not confrontational and leaves the door open to discussion. If then the person is rude and defensive they deserve to be kicked. No mutual learning can be had by putting someone on the defensive right out of the box.
    Please point out who on this forum I said should play another game. Name the specific person. I just explained further what I was saying. Maybe reread what I typed. I said "maybe" meaning it is still up to them. I don't see why an uncooperative person would want to play an mmo.

    Please stop emphasizing that I tell people to play another game in the game itself. I never have.
    (6)

  8. #8
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,648
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanjien View Post
    You just said it on this forum...if you don't listen to me and follow my advice then you shouldn't play this game. Who are you to tell anyone what game they should play? A better suggestion would be "if you don't take my advice you will not improve and you will not be able to sample the higher and more rewarding content in the game". Not confrontational and leaves the door open to discussion. If then the person is rude and defensive they deserve to be kicked. No mutual learning can be had by putting someone on the defensive right out of the box.
    Comments like this bother me. Why do I have to be almost sickeningly sweet because someone's feelings might get hurt? Frankly, I'd find a statement like that almost condescending because it comes across fake. I'm not knocking you specifically but the general idea we need to be overly polite. What's wrong with simply saying "Can you pls AoE large pulls SAM?" Maybe you go the extra mile and add "pls use [Fuga] combo. It's much better for large pulls."

    I don't really care to have a discussion per se. I just want to get through the dungeon with a reasonably competent group.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus View Post
    For that advice- are you being asked for it? Or coming up to people and saying 'oh wow your glamour sucks, here's how to do it better?'. I feel like a lot of people that are bristling here over giving advice are glossing over that the advice is-

    A- unwanted
    B- public
    C- short and often not helpful or constructive
    D- generally rude and unpleasant

    When it happens in a pug. If someone is asking you for advice, then it's not unsolicited or unwanted advice- that's a pretty massive difference. Also- if you're getting frequent positive responses to your advice chances are you're doing it well. If you're always getting negative responses to your advice, that's a sign you're not as good at giving advice as you think you are.
    You're making a false equivalent here. Their glamour literally does not matter. They could be naked, in a pig suit or wearing a modded outfit I can't even see. The only thing which will impact me (and everyone else) is their damage contribution; or healing and tanking, respectively.

    To put it another way. Would you consider it rude for someone to tell a tank they need to use CDs? If they survived without them. What does it matter? That logic would be asinine. The same applies to AoE-ing. You can single target and still kill things, eventually. Just like you can live pretty much any normal mode tank buster without CDs; even some Savage ones if you're HP is high enough. But it's far more effective if you AoE those mobs just like it is to use cooldowns.
    (10)
    Last edited by ForteNightshade; 07-25-2020 at 06:25 AM.
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  9. #9
    Player
    Kamome-chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    29
    Character
    Jotaro Kujo
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanjien View Post
    It is akin to "if you don't want to stand for the National Anthem, maybe you should move to another country!"
    No it's not

    You don't decide where you're going to born and therefor your National Anthem

    You however decide or not if you want to follow an advice and improve.
    (12)