Major flaws in healing design.

[Darkmoonrise]

Yes, please tell that to all the people who refuse to do their jobs.

I think everyone should be held accountable.

From the dps who dont improve their rotations, to the tanks who refuse to tank and mitigate, and use the blackest night, to the healers who refuse to heal, and force the co-healer to do all the healing.

If the community worked together, as a group, Square-Enix wouldnt have to constantly combat poor behavior. Yes this goes for low damage DPS to tanks trying to tank in off tank stance, to healers refusing to heal.

You think DPS jobs get constantly tweaked, tanks had tank stance removed and enmity generation turned into a joke, and healers damage actions reduced to just a few actions, because everyone is playing nicely? No.

You look really passionate about the topic.

First of, What I wrote is my point of view, I gave some context to support it and that is all. You have our point of view, which I disagree with, but its yours and I absolutely don't mind it, you can keep it and defend it, that's your right. You won't see me on your way as long as your freedom doesn't hinder mine.

Second, everything you wrote (quoted above) is you pretending to read my mind. I never said anything like that. More over, I tend to be on the "elitist" team with a "stopped bothering" bonus (Would you like to know more? https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5373678, yes I'm a fan of Starship Troopers ^^).

Third, you're mixing 2 problems here : 1. You'd like that player who fails are punished first and 2. The long lasting problem of people not performing well. I totally see the relation between both, correct me if I'm wrong : "Because people doesn't perform well at their job, they should be punished, not me". But again, those are two different problems which needs to be treated separately. For me, the current state of the first part is fine, for you it's not. For the second problem, well this is human nature, good luck changing that. If you find a solution in which people care about others and do their very best to bring heaven on Earth, well damn, you're the next Gandi. Don't read me wrong, this would be awesome and all, even IRL, but it's an utopy, not going to happen. See my "stopped bothering" side?

And last but not least, and this is a social advice, you can ignore it if you want. There is always a way to understand a message in an agressiv way. Always. Knowing that, if you await an agressiv responses, inevitably, it will be agressiv, no matter the actual content of the message. Posting controvertial topic is fine and always should be possible. But if you are allowed to post your point of view, the other are in their right to do so too. But that doesn't make them the ennemy to combat at all cost. Take our exchange here as an example, I disagree with you but I'm not your enemy. I don't know you and cannot judge you on this topic only. So the advice is : "apply the presumption of innocence", this is going to save you a lot of energy and dicreass stress and angry level by a big amount.

Wish you a good day fellow gamer

[Limonia]

I've seen similar situations like the OP's frequently myself. Healers that just continue to press their one dps spam button when the group absolutely NEEDS healing NOW. Of course there are situations where the tank makes the mistake to press their mitigation too late (or not all all...), but to punish them for it by deliberately neglecting to heal them only makes things worse for the whole party.

I like to dps as a healer as well, see how far I can go, try my best not to clip my GCD too much, all that stuff, even if I'm a mostly casual player.
I hate it so much when healers just stand there doing nothing or overheal like crazy because they want FFXIV to be a game that it's not.
But I also hate those that think that never healing at all is okay. Most times they are people with very good gear, forgetting that outside of their usual optimized gameplay random players do make mistakes or just aren't as good as to what they are used to. Failing to adapt to different situations. Assuming their co-healer does their work for them. Blaming others for not working exactly like their static members. Or maybe doing it to spite the others and showing them how far above they actually are.
Who cares if they clip their GCD for a heal NOW instead of waiting for their DoT to get refreshed to SAVE the party? A GOOD healer needs to be able to react to other players' mistake and act accordingly. That doesn't mean you have to babysit or carry them. But to risk a wipe only because "well, usually in my static we do this and that at this very second, so I've decided you're out of luck right now" is, in my eyes, arrogant and condescending.

I think it's sad that those two opposite, completely wrong ways of playing healers get a pass just like that. The other roles have that as well, but for healers it's so much more noticeable. Instead of punishment though, I would love some kind of incentive to play healer (and of course the other roles too) the way it's supposed to - attacking when no healing is required but healing when it's needed. But I have no idea how they would motivate players to do it. For newer players, similar tutorial-like instances like the Novice Hall would be great, but it won't work for the opposite problem, because it's more of a personality thing I guess... and implementing some kind of mechanic where healing at the right time gives you something would probably not work properly either... but maybe something in that direction.

[Brandedblade]

snip.

I think you've more or less summarized the 'darned if you do, darned if you don't' situation of the healers. I've actually come to the conclusion that the healers tend to he much more fun to play when you don't play them the optimal way.

While I'm not saying I'll intentionally play bad doing something like when I'm progging savage. I'm also saying that I dont care if Indom is more efficient then deploying an Adlo in most situations. it's more fun to see how much of the damage you absorb with a well placed deploy.

[Absurdity]

it's more fun to see how much of the damage you absorb with a well placed deploy.

Guess I'm on the opposite camp. Even if it's a crit adlo the shield is maybe 20-22k....that's what? Half of an aoe? So you just spent 2 gcds to deploy adlo on the group and you still have to heal now, besides not being optimal it's also not very exciting to me.

[Brandedblade]

Guess I'm on the opposite camp. Even if it's a crit adlo the shield is maybe 20-22k....that's what? Half of an aoe? So you just spent 2 gcds to deploy adlo on the group and you still have to heal now, besides not being optimal it's also not very exciting to me.

thank you for proving my point. different things appeal to different healers. All I said was that I personally find it more fun to do so when even I admit it's less optimal. healers tend to be at their best when not playing in optimal settings because it makes using your toolkit feel that tiny bit more engaging..

[Absurdity]

thank you for proving my point. different things appeal to different healers. All I said was that I personally find it more fun to do so when even I admit it's less optimal. healers tend to be at their best when not playing in optimal settings because it makes using your toolkit feel that tiny bit more engaging..

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that. Healer is probably the most engaging when things go terribly wrong, that is however something you don't really want to happen.

[Billythepancake]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that. Healer is probably the most engaging when things go terribly wrong, that is however something you don't really want to happen.

Such backwards design. I've never played any other game where it's only fun to play when you're playing poorly. Games should reward you for playing well. Absolute disaster that healers in this game are punished for doing good.

[Ilenya]

Such backwards design. I've never played any other game where it's only fun to play when you're playing poorly. Games should reward you for playing well. Absolute disaster that healers in this game are punished for doing good.

City of Heroes used to have it as a passive for the Defender AT, where they would get a discount on Endurance (MP, basically) the lower hp the allies were. This was a massively silly idea, and they did eventually get something else, but things like this have happened before.

[Miminming]

removing migitation from dps is like removing the only part where dps is invlude to teamwork...

[bundythenoob]

removing migitation from dps is like removing the only part where dps is invlude to teamwork...

I agree with this. I wouldn't remove the mitigation from DPS at all. I like the idea that a skilled DPS has a chance to show off their knowledge by debuffing tankbusters or raidwide aoes. If anything, I'd rather see Protecc/shell be added to healers, and remove that ridiculous tank "mastery" trait. this would not only make a tank's mitigation skills much more valuable, but would also boost the value of DPS mitigation, and the healer mitigation.