5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[millktea]

Damage wise, the fact PLD out-damages WAR is a non-issue because of how little the damage difference is.

It matters, as PLD offers a lot more than War and still does more dps. The difference is enough. War doesn't really bring anything. SIO is good, but not good enough to justify it over a PLD, and nascent is a joke. Not only that the heal is too bursty and it isn't good enough to justify it. I don't even know why this is even considered, as PLD is an OT and WAR cannot complete. Intervention is better than nascent in that at least intervention actually serves its purpose in that its beneficial to the teammate. Nascent is only really good for the WAR. Warrior has to give up resources that actually matter. warrior lost all its flexibility at 80. Pld has 2 bursts, 2 choices and with the addition to atonement, its obtained nice flexibility. Warrior had some flexibility, but now its been locked out of its level 50 skill, infuriate, which makes the job clunky af. Why is warrior losing its 50 ability while the devs just give that skill to multiple other jobs. PLD flexibility gives them more opportunity and it's far more rewarding, so it is not a fair trade at all. The fact that PLD has more sustain and doesn't NEED bis or melds just to play it like warrior

I do agree that pld is the hardest tank to optimize as, but warrior is more challenging than it is given credit, as far as shadowbringers, warrior is in a bad spot, not paladin and with the stripped identity, warrior is by far an afterthought.

We lost deliverance which not only destroyed our damage, but our identity as well. How can yoshida lie to dismiss the issues claiming "job identity", but deny this explicitly? I have all my deliverance abilities at 80, so why is my tank stance defiance when my true stance is deliverance? What does it matter if "warrior hits the hardest" when the other tanks barely hit any softer? I'm also still the LOWEST IN DPS. Why is all my utility and synergy gone (slashing, holmgang x bene, defiance x deliverance, more cds)? Why am I still suffering from a 3gcd damage bonus buff before going into aoe when the others don't (or need to at least hit one button to do so)? Why is war getting penalized with that upkeep as if its much ahead, like monk from HW? Why am I sacrificing my self heal (path) WHEN I need to keep that up, but gnb gets it every time in their combo (with the mitigation not being wasted)? Why is a "self healing tank" unable to truly heal 75 below? It doesn't even do it at 76, it needs a partner, this isn't "the self". Why is my 80 kill my 35 skill? What is warrior? What is its identity? Its not self healing, the others do it, its not the dps tank, the others do more, it's not "big hit bro", the OTHER TANKS HAVE IT TOO. They all have their own fell cleave. There is no identity.

Notapaladinthreadguys...

[ArianeEwah]

[...]nascent is a joke.[...]

Do you mean in terms of design or in terms of balance, i.e. healing and mitigation?

In terms of design, I agree. Your healing relying on a support action is dumb. If it would've been only healing on your support target, I wouldn't mind it at all, but healing myself with a support target is unfitting.

In terms of balance, I think this action is hella strong. In fact so strong, that Raw Intuition is just a niche action used for Shake It Off or "would be dead otherwise" moments, i.e. mitigation>healing. I wouldn't say NF is overpowered, but definitly better than Raw Intuition in most cases. Also better than base Intervention or HoS.

[RaijiMagiwind]

While WAR has it's quirks, I feel the main thing needed right now is work on CD and maybe mitigation on cost for various actions. I mean what point is there of WAR having an MP gauge when we aren't really using it...
Maybe a mechanic that could allow us to use MP to allow for use to up or skill speed and CD or even the idea of having some of the skills utilize our MP instead of our BG, so we can them be able to make more effective use of our guage...

[Lucy_Pyre]

While WAR has it's quirks, I feel the main thing needed right now is work on CD and maybe mitigation on cost for various actions. I mean what point is there of WAR having an MP gauge when we aren't really using it...
Maybe a mechanic that could allow us to use MP to allow for use to up or skill speed and CD or even the idea of having some of the skills utilize our MP instead of our BG, so we can them be able to make more effective use of our guage...

Giving WAR a SkS boost would completely alter the *entire* rotation, so let's just not do that for literally no reason. And news flash, about 75% of the jobs in the game have a mana bar with no MP abilities.

[Hierro]

Giving WAR a SkS boost would completely alter the *entire* rotation...

And that's a good thing!

[Absurdity]

And that's a good thing!

Not necessarily. More SkS would just mean more path spam which isn't exactly making things more engaging and we're probably gonna end up at really awkward points in our rotation when IR comes back up.


This is taken from the balance:


Why these Skillspeeds?
Warriors want to divide the Inner Release's cooldown (90s) as evenly as possible.
90 / 2.38 = 37.82
That makes 38 GCDs between each Inner Release cast. This way, Inner Release comes up right after we finish our 38th GCD and we can re-enter the Fell Cleave spam phase.
Going above or below from 2.38 GCD changes the timings so that we either wait for Inner Release to be back up or we delay it because we're still in the middle of our GCD.

[Lucy_Pyre]

And that's a good thing!

No, no it really is not. As it currently stands you can refresh Storm's Eye at the perfect time *almost* every single time that you refresh it, so long as you're doing your rotation perfectly. If you add in a SkS buff to the job not only will that *stop* being true, but it'll also lead to situations where we go into Inner Release mid-combo, or (potentially) even at some point in the rotation force us into a situation where IR is off CD but we have to delay it unnecessarily in order to refresh Storm's Eye so as to not have it drop off during IR. The rotation flows almost perfectly as it is right now, and adding a passive SkS buff will completely destroy that.

[Absurdity]

More skillspeed could work but it would most likely require more changes to warrior than just slapping a lower recast time onto it's GCDs.


Or it would have to be a permanent buff that needs to be kept active like NIN's Huton and SAM's Shifu so we can drop SkS from our gear since we plan with a constant speed buff in mind.

[Thoosa]

Warrior feels slow to me compared to pld and gnb, plus the aoe is kinda boring. I do like the fell cleave burst and inner chaos. I also miss stance dancing which made up a big part of war for me.

[Hierro]

No, no it really is not. As it currently stands you can refresh Storm's Eye at the perfect time *almost* every single time that you refresh it, so long as you're doing your rotation perfectly. If you add in a SkS buff to the job not only will that *stop* being true, but it'll also lead to situations where we go into Inner Release mid-combo, or (potentially) even at some point in the rotation force us into a situation where IR is off CD but we have to delay it unnecessarily in order to refresh Storm's Eye so as to not have it drop off during IR. The rotation flows almost perfectly as it is right now, and adding a passive SkS buff will completely destroy that.

What's that? You being a coward at the prospect of adapting to new fundamentals and taking on the refreshing prospect of having to relearn a job you thought you knew? Think, man! 6 fell cleaves! Be a man!