Can we just scrap the idea of Conjurer already?

[Mychael]

OP, why should we rebuild a perfectly good class around your desires, because you feel it doesn't mtch the lore. Especially when your copy cating a copy cat who copied a copy cat by making the 5,286th thread on the same topic.

Doesn't it just make more sense for them to adjust the lore. Especially since we have already had devs responses to this topic and they clarified the solution to come.

Not to mention that conjurers still fit perfectly into there class description as well.

Wait a second. Did you even read what I said, Coglin? I didn't say anything about "rebuilding a class." The idea behind conjurer was a mage that commanded the elements. That's not the case any more. So I think we need to stop trying to have this two-fold deal where Conjurer's lore says we master the elements and Conjurer itself is just White Mage with Stone.

Ordinarily I appreciate your posts, Coglin, so please don't let me down with personal attacks about how I'm asking for a class redesign based around my expectations--I'd much prefer a post about your expectations, and how they differ from mine. If you could link to the dev posts it would be greatly appreciated because not all of us have twenty-four hours a day to read every forum post, and while the Search function is there, it's a lot easier to make the 5,286th on the same topic and eat the flames that come with it. ^^

Adjusting the lore would be easier than simply scrapping the entire thing, but it will be difficult to do. The entire Gridania storyline largely depends on the Conjurers' abilities to communicate with the elementals, so even the minor adjustments we're talking about would seem to have major implications--Twin Adder quests, Main Story quests, sidequests, just the dialogue from random NPCs--it almost seems like it would be easier to make Conjurer (and the associated guild) not playable, and just change the name of the playable class.

[Coglin]

Wait a second. Did you even read what I said, Coglin?
Sure did, and it read to me that you want CNJ changed to have all elements as DD nukes again.
I didn't say anything about "rebuilding a class." The idea behind conjurer was a mage that commanded the elements.
Sure read like you did to me. Your post appeared to say you wanted them to adjust CNJ to have all elements as a DD nuke so it fit with your take on the lore.
That's not the case any more.
How do they not have comand ove rthe elements, just because they are not all DD nukes doesn't mean the do not command them. For example, they are the only class in the game that can shield you against them.
So I think we need to stop trying to have this two-fold deal where Conjurer's lore says we master the elements and Conjurer itself is just White Mage with Stone.
The class discription is certainly accurate to CNJ as they are now. Again, you appear to believe the only way to command an element is to use it as a DD ability. As of now they can cast earth, wind, fire, and lightening as DD spells, and are the only class that can shield against elemental attacks.
Ordinarily I appreciate your posts, Coglin, so please don't let me down with personal attacks about how I'm asking for a class redesign based around my expectations-
Interesting, I post my opinion, and it varies from yours so, you want to fly off the handle on the defensive at me and make accusatins of personal attacks? Okay wise guy, what did I say, specefically, that you interpereted as a personal insult or attack in any way?
-I'd much prefer a post about your expectations, and how they differ from mine. If you could link to the dev posts it would be greatly appreciated because not all of us have twenty-four hours a day to read every forum post,
Well wise arse, I don't have that kind of time either. I would love to link the post for you, but it sure reads to me that your making some inflamittory comment there with the 24 hr remark. So feel free to find it. I have 5 kids, and a wife 5 of which play this game, they tend to keep me updates, as I work 12 hour rotating swing shifts.
and while the Search function is there, it's a lot easier to make the 5,286th on the same topic and eat the flames that come with it. ^^
Its easier then to look through the titles of 2 pages of threads in the CNJ section? It took me only a few seconds to scroll down the first page and then to do the same on the second to find a few thread titles that tiped me off, but there are a few of the threads on the first page that vere heavily into this conversation. They are very helpfull to read reguardless, but several of them clear alot of this up. I am surprised you had not read them recently anyway.
Adjusting the lore would be easier than simply scrapping the entire thing, but it will be difficult to do.
Harder then redoing the class quest and redesigning the entire world and all its ones as well as implimenting a new client and graphics drive? why would they do all of that and not take a few minutes to change several lines of text for the sake of the overall lore?
The entire Gridania storyline largely depends on the Conjurers' abilities to communicate with the elementals, so even the minor adjustments we're talking about would seem to have major implications-
What do we have in game that has changes that makes you believe CNJ cannot communicate with the elements??
-Twin Adder quests, Main Story quests, sidequests, just the dialogue from random NPCs--it almost seems like it would be easier to make Conjurer (and the associated guild) not playable, and just change the name of the playable class.
Not sure I follow you here. The class is conjurer, not elementalist.

Mhmm green.

[Mychael]

Short Version: I honestly think that the whole idea behind Conjurer is gone, and that we should just let it go. While the lore is beautiful, it really doesn't sit with the current class anymore. However, I don't want this to degrade into another "OMG SE YOU SCREWED UP THE LORE" thread, or a QQ about how I miss the full elemental wheel. I just want to say that it's time for SE to cut their losses (the beautiful lore that was written) and give Conjurer a background that makes sense.

I want conjurers to get their DD back? Check the bolded sentences. It's been there from the beginning. There's one part of my OP that says I wish they'd left Conjurer and Thaumaturge alone. It's parenthetical and a smaller font size. I also said that I hope White Mage will only be one path that a Conjurer can choose and that I hoped their elemental side could still be embraced. Those were/are my hopes, and nothing more. They have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on. I included them to provide something with which I could contrast the reality that Conjurer is now just White Mage under a different name and with an off-topic storyline.

And while we don't have anything in-game that suggests Conjurers can no longer commune with the elementals, I bolded the parts of Gildrien's post that described conjurers.

And as for personal attacks, does this ring a bell? "Especially when your copy cating a copy cat who copied a copy cat by making the 5,286th thread on the same topic." It seems to have little/nothing to do with why my OP is/isn't valid.

I'd rather them start over than just edit a bit here and a bit there to make it fit, but if it can be pulled off without seeming inconsistent like it does now, more power to them.

[Inzoum]

Although I agree with you from a Lore perspective, it all really lends itself for better gameplay, which I agree with even more.

The way I see it, the lore's not completely devoid of sense now that the elemental magic's been distributed between Conjurer and Thaumaturge. If you think about it, Conjurers still have access to Earth, Air and Water (through Cure) elemental magic, which are the steadier forces of Nature. It's expected to have soil under your feet. The wind blows and water flows on all occasions, it's Nature's song. The elements available to the Conjurer are 100% in-line with that of a mage in-tune with Nature's forces, able to listen to the calls of Nature's spirits.

THM's newly-acquired elemental magic revolves around more extreme, unsteady forces of nature, namely Lightning, Fire and Ice. It's unusual for lightning to strike on command, it's unlikely for fire to spontaneously light up, and freeze doesn't normally happen in such a short time. These are unnatural, occult manipulations of more destructive natural forces.

And yes, Conjurer = Élémentaliste in French, while Thaumaturge = Occultiste in French.

The only thing that REALLY bothers me with the distribution of elemental attack spells between CNJ and THM is the total disappearance of the Water spell. Flans change their elemental weakness/resistance whenever you hit them with the spell they're weak to, so while Earth and Wind are not part of the same vulnerability triplet (you will always be able to use one or the other at normal efficiency regardless of enemy weakness/resistance), once the Flan becomes weak against Water, there's absolutely nothing you can do to shift their elemental status anymore, all the spells in the game will either hit normal, hit low, or heal the damn thing, and it will NEVER shift to anything else.

Give us back Water, damnit.