Dropped Items and Materia

[Chadwick]

Just so we are clear. He doesn't hate crafting.

...

So yeah, he hates crafters, or at least is frothing-at-the-mouth jealous of them.

He's just jealous of them. He tried crafting once but he just wasn't a good enough player to do it successfully. So now all he can do is fight monsters where his skill and knowledge of the game is the deciding factor. He can't make or obtain the majority of the best gear in the game by killing what he would probably claim to be "difficult" monsters (pshaw!), and personally, I think that's what he deserves.

If you can't invest hundreds of hours of spamming Standard synthesis into this game... well, you should just go "play a new game" Brannigan.

[Stufoo]

The entire point that you are missing while you are spamming the term "Blue W" over and over and stalking through Brannigan's posts to prove an irrelevant point is that crafting is easily incorporated in the process of obtaining those end-game items and it is not necessarily exclusive or mandatory to punish crafters to have a functioning and worthwhile end-game for fighters as well.

Crafted trash items that are spammable and worth nothing being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Straight drop rare/ex items like ifrit weapons being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Do you honestly still not see why we're bitching? Either way you think it'll go it's a downhill run, and that's completely ignoring the materia issue. The people who are even dividing the types of items into groups such as "crafted" and "Unique untradeable" are the very source of the problem.

Rare materials from bosses and harder gathers, crafted pop items, along with abjuration papers from bosses used in uncursing crafted items belongs in this game more so than XI. Items in MMOs are not white and black and there is a beautiful land of grey in between that gives happiness and involvement to all types of players, and they aren't even looking for it. The dodore doublet is okay, but the adaman hauberk in XI was brilliant. Crafters even had a small part in obtaining ToAU AF and upgrading the rest of the AF through CoP. Some slots, a crafted piece was best or good enough (Dusk gloves, Cerberus Mantle, Thalassocrat), some slots a rare/ex or combat piece were best (Walahra Turban, Rajas Ring, Peacock charm/Sea Torque) and some needed both (Adaman Hauberk, Shura Togi.) These are the types of things we should be asking for and seeing more of, not trying to justify and support crafted trash being the best or saying that rare/ex will come and win the day in the future. Notice that I listed Dusk and Cerberus Mantles under crafted items and you'll see exactly what I mean about homogenizing gear sources.

For this game to work, all three groups need to be happy, everyone needs their own hand in the end-game basket. On the road we're headed, someone is being left out of the club, no matter which way you go.

Sidenote: Blue W is still a meaningless term that only you are using because SE doesn't know how to do tiers. Please realize this.

[NoctisUmbra]

Not saying there aren't itemization balance issues at the moment in the game.

Just saying that allowing W gear to be melded isn't some miraculous solution to these issues. Also saying it's far too soon to pass judgement. Definitely at least not until we see what the two Lv 50 dungeons of 1.21 bring us as loot, as well as the new materia that gets added.

[Zantetsuken]

Crafted trash items that are spammable and worth nothing being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Straight drop rare/ex items like ifrit weapons being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

BEST is a rather relative term. I imagine that you and the OP mean it to be something like highest dps. There was stuff in FFXI that was the best in different areas but for straight number crunchers, there was an absolute best DPS for every item in the game and it was primarily Relic (at least pre-abyssea).

In that case, there is no way around having either melded or dropped items at the top of the list unless you want every item to be completely balanced in damage ouput.

Is that what you are asking for? 5-melded items to be equal in DPS power to Ifrit or Moogle weapons? The ease in obtaining the latter compared to the latter means that DPS equality will render useless crafters and materia. (Something the OP seems to be keenly interested in)

I'm really curious as to what you think is a proper solution.

And don't tell me that melding U/U items will even come close to addressing this issue, because it won't.

[Brannigan]

Lol holy hell.

Okay first of all at no point have I ever said that you can out-dps melee Ifrit drops with materia'd generics. I have said that Ifrit's blade is not as good as a melded hq winglet. This is because a gladiator's job is not to do damage, it is to 1) keep the monster's attention and 2) not die, which enmity and dex/vitality help with respectively. The theoretical winglet with attack power example might be the worst thing I've ever seen

Is that what you are asking for? 5-melded items to be equal in DPS power to Ifrit or Moogle weapons? The ease in obtaining the latter compared to the latter means that DPS equality will render useless crafters and materia. (Something the OP seems to be keenly interested in)

Okay, okay. Once again I will very clearly state this:

It is not A Good Game if all the best stuff comes from crafters with no need to ever leave town and fight monsters. It is also not really a good thing if you can just buy all the best stuff. The reason players who like fighting monsters continue to log in after they have beaten all the monsters is to chase gear upgrades and to help their friends defeat the monsters.

If there is no item incentive to fight a monster more than once then players stop logging in or just stand idle in Ul'dah. If they do this long enough then they realize that they are paying a monthly fee for IRC and quit the game.

If monsters drop good gear then it is A Good Thing. Players have incentive to stop gambling on materia, leave town, and go fight monsters. The problem with this good gear being unmeldable is that upgrades are also likely to be unmeldable (since they will come from later-released or more difficult content and thus also be U/U). This creates a situation where the player doesn't care about materia for that particular slot. As more players acquire more U/U gear the materia system fades out of use and is wasted.

Think about this: if, when AF comes out, it is anywhere near the power of a good double meld, what materia will still be worth getting? Shield, weapon (for a couple of classes, maybe - until AF weapons come out), and..?

This hurts crafters because right now the materia grind is the only thing that lets crafters sell anything at all. If Cobalt Cuirasses weren't being removed from the game then they wouldn't sell because everyone already has one. There's no rare materials to make a rare piece with and the craft grind can be done for free with leves so being a level 50 armorer is nothing special.

A single meld on U/U changes things up. The materia grind continues, but not necessarily because you're trying to get massive amounts of the stuff to destroy on multi-melds. Instead, you're looking for the rare materia - the perfect tier IVs - so that you have the very best stats you can get in the robe you got from the Garlean Technomancer boss or whatever. Since materia can't be removed from an item without being destroyed, you need more of it for your next upgrade.

So, in short, what I am asking for is to allow the melding of U/U items with a single materia. The main point of it is to get classes involved with obtaining their equipment and remove some of the RNG slavery while giving crafters a way to continue to make money off of their generics. There have been plenty of other good ideas in this thread like having boss monsters drop materials for powerful bind-on-equip items, but this should be done along with melding U/U.

I'm not going to bother responding to all the quotes you use to demonstrate how much I "hate" crafters. Anyone who knows how to read won't interpret them that way. You should add that post to your portfolio for when you fill out that Fox News job application.

[NoctisUmbra]

It is not A Good Game if all the best stuff comes from crafters with no need to ever leave town and fight monsters. It is also not really a good thing if you can just buy all the best stuff.

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

[Chadwick]

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

Brannigan yet again proving to us what an imbecile he is.

He would have us believe you could simply buy materia and gear from other people "without ever leaving town". As if there is some sort of ward set aside in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa for what you might call a market.

Maybe you should actually play this game before you complain about it BRANNIGAN.

[Brannigan]

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

you get spiritbond for crafting and gathering exp plus market wards exist.

I mean, jesus, you even quoted the bolded "and fight monsters" part. Also p.s. you know as well as I do that burning down wolves for spiritbond is a shitty way to get amazing any gear

look I realize you don't read posts before replying to them (as evidenced on the very first page of this thread) but at least read what you quoted.

[NoctisUmbra]

Brannigan yet again proving to us what an imbecile he is.

He would have us believe you could simply buy materia and gear from other people "without ever leaving town". As if there is some sort of ward set aside in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa for what you might call a market.

Maybe you should actually play this game before you complain about it BRANNIGAN.

aaaaand the gil comes from what exactly? Not leaving town after all, so you must have some secret method to earning the massive amounts of gil required without leaving town if you're telling me one simply purchases everything. No need to try being a smartass.

I mean, jesus, you even quoted the bolded "and fight monsters" part. Also p.s. you know as well as I do that burning down wolves for spiritbond is a shitty way to get amazing any gear

look I realize you don't read posts before replying to them (as evidenced on the very first page of this thread) but at least read what you quoted.

"with no need to leave town and fight monsters" must mean one doesn't leave town or fight monsters. You can't do both after all. Thus I interpreted a crafter that stays in town all day every day and somehow generates the income in gil necessary to spam forbidden melds and get the "best gear in the game."

[Brannigan]

"with no need to leave town and fight monsters" must mean one doesn't leave town or fight monsters.

Where I come from "and" and "or" have different meanings. Basically, you don't have to [stop playing a stupid minigame and fight some monsters] to spiritbond or get gil (since gathering, too, is a stupid minigame that is entirely a solo endeavor).

Also holy fuck seriously getting caught up on this crap again. The point is you don't need a party to get any of this crap. You don't need to fight anything more difficult than a regular solo monster. You don't need to put forth any effort that a bot couldn't. This is a bad system.